1 00:00:50,114 --> 00:00:54,175 The National Rifle Association has produced a film 2 00:00:54,318 --> 00:00:56,878 which you are sure to find of great interest. 3 00:00:57,021 --> 00:00:59,421 Let's look at it. 4 00:00:59,557 --> 00:01:03,084 - It was the morning of April 20th, 1999. 5 00:01:03,227 --> 00:01:06,890 And it was pretty much like any other morning in America. 6 00:01:07,031 --> 00:01:11,593 The farmer did his chores, 7 00:01:11,736 --> 00:01:14,432 the milkman made his deliveries, 8 00:01:14,572 --> 00:01:16,733 the president bombed another country 9 00:01:16,874 --> 00:01:18,739 whose name we couldn't pronounce. 10 00:01:18,876 --> 00:01:20,400 Out in Fargo, North Dakota, 11 00:01:20,545 --> 00:01:24,106 Carry McWilliams went on his morning walk. 12 00:01:24,248 --> 00:01:27,046 Back in Michigan, Mrs. Hughes welcomed her students 13 00:01:27,185 --> 00:01:29,312 for another day of school. 14 00:01:29,454 --> 00:01:32,150 And out in a little town in Colorado, 15 00:01:32,290 --> 00:01:33,655 two boys went bowling 16 00:01:33,791 --> 00:01:36,259 at six in the morning. 17 00:01:36,394 --> 00:01:38,862 Yes, it was a typical day in the United States 18 00:01:38,996 --> 00:01:40,964 of America. 19 00:01:43,668 --> 00:01:45,363 - Can I help you? - Uh, yeah, 20 00:01:46,737 --> 00:01:48,364 I'm here to open up an account. 21 00:01:48,506 --> 00:01:50,269 - Okay, what type of account would you like? 22 00:01:50,408 --> 00:01:53,605 - Um, I want the account where I can, uh, get the free gun. 23 00:01:53,744 --> 00:01:55,109 - Okay. 24 00:01:55,246 --> 00:01:57,612 - I'd spotted an ad in the local Michigan paper 25 00:01:57,748 --> 00:02:00,273 that said if you opened an account at North Country Bank, 26 00:02:00,418 --> 00:02:02,784 the bank would give you a gun. - You do a CD 27 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,854 and we'll hand you a gun. 28 00:02:04,989 --> 00:02:08,720 We have a whole brochure here that you can look at. 29 00:02:08,860 --> 00:02:10,691 Once we do the background check and everything, 30 00:02:10,828 --> 00:02:13,388 it's yours to go. - Okay. Well, all right, 31 00:02:13,531 --> 00:02:15,499 well, that's the account I'd like to open. 32 00:02:15,633 --> 00:02:18,796 We have a vault, which at all times we keep at least 33 00:02:18,936 --> 00:02:20,403 500 firearms. - Five-hundred of these, 34 00:02:20,538 --> 00:02:22,233 you have in your vault? - In our vault. 35 00:02:22,373 --> 00:02:23,738 - Wow. 36 00:02:23,875 --> 00:02:25,240 - We have to do a background check. 37 00:02:25,376 --> 00:02:27,241 - At the bank here? - At the bank, 38 00:02:27,378 --> 00:02:29,243 which we are a licensed firearm dealer. 39 00:02:29,380 --> 00:02:31,848 - Oh, you are? You're a bank and a licensed firearm dealer. 40 00:02:31,983 --> 00:02:34,645 What do I put for "race"? White or Caucasian or...? 41 00:02:34,785 --> 00:02:36,582 - Caucasian. - Caucasian. 42 00:02:36,721 --> 00:02:41,590 - I knew you were gonna make me spell the... Cau-ca-sian. 43 00:02:41,726 --> 00:02:44,251 Is that right? - Yes. 44 00:02:44,395 --> 00:02:48,491 I don't think that's the part they're gonna be worried about. 45 00:02:48,633 --> 00:02:50,601 "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective 46 00:02:50,735 --> 00:02:53,067 or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" 47 00:02:53,204 --> 00:02:55,035 I've never been committed to a mental institution. 48 00:02:55,173 --> 00:02:56,538 What does that mean, 49 00:02:56,674 --> 00:02:58,938 "Have I ever been adjudicated mentally defective"? 50 00:02:59,076 --> 00:03:01,442 - It would be something involved with a crime. 51 00:03:01,579 --> 00:03:03,945 So if I'm just normally mentally defective but not criminal... 52 00:03:04,081 --> 00:03:05,446 - Yeah, exactly. 53 00:03:05,583 --> 00:03:08,882 - There you go, Mike. - Okay. Thank you very much. Wow. 54 00:03:09,020 --> 00:03:11,386 - I had one personally-- - That's a nice tension. 55 00:03:11,522 --> 00:03:13,581 - It is and it's a straight-shooter, 56 00:03:13,724 --> 00:03:15,214 let me tell ya. 57 00:03:17,828 --> 00:03:20,126 - Wow. Sweet. 58 00:03:20,264 --> 00:03:22,562 Well, here's my first question: You think 59 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:24,895 it's a little dangerous, handing out guns in a bank? 60 00:04:11,382 --> 00:04:14,476 - Ten-ho! 61 00:04:14,619 --> 00:04:17,417 - Each gun makes lots of battle sounds. 62 00:04:17,555 --> 00:04:20,752 Just press the trigger, and listen. 63 00:04:20,891 --> 00:04:22,654 - That sounds like a gun battle. Over there. 64 00:04:22,793 --> 00:04:25,261 - Is it real? - Looks like real! 65 00:04:25,396 --> 00:04:28,024 Hey, it sounds like real! 66 00:04:28,165 --> 00:04:31,532 - Right! The Sound-O-Power military and western rifles 67 00:04:31,669 --> 00:04:33,034 by Marx! 68 00:04:33,170 --> 00:04:36,162 - This was my first gun. 69 00:04:36,307 --> 00:04:40,175 I couldn't wait to go outside and shoot up the neighbourhood. 70 00:04:40,311 --> 00:04:42,802 Those were the days. "I was born 71 00:04:42,947 --> 00:04:45,347 "in Michigan 72 00:04:45,483 --> 00:04:48,281 "and I wish and wish again that I was back 73 00:04:48,419 --> 00:04:51,149 "in the town where I was born" 74 00:04:51,289 --> 00:04:53,052 - By the time I was a teenager, 75 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:54,555 I was such a good shot 76 00:04:54,692 --> 00:04:56,887 I won the National Rifle Association's 77 00:04:57,028 --> 00:04:59,462 Markman award. You see, 78 00:04:59,597 --> 00:05:00,962 I grew up in Michigan, 79 00:05:01,098 --> 00:05:02,793 a gun-lover's paradise. 80 00:05:02,933 --> 00:05:04,867 And so did this man, 81 00:05:05,002 --> 00:05:07,527 the Oscar-winning actor and president 82 00:05:07,672 --> 00:05:10,368 of the National Rifle Association, 83 00:05:10,508 --> 00:05:12,203 Mr. Charlton Heston. 84 00:05:15,946 --> 00:05:17,709 We come from a state where everyone 85 00:05:17,848 --> 00:05:20,408 loves to go hunting. 86 00:05:20,551 --> 00:05:22,041 - Hah. - Even the dogs. 87 00:05:22,186 --> 00:05:25,644 - There were actually two of the hunters at camp. 88 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:27,155 They thought they'd get a few pictures 89 00:05:27,291 --> 00:05:29,225 of the dog dressed up as a hunter 90 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,487 to kind of just have some fun around camp. 91 00:05:31,629 --> 00:05:33,654 And one of the guys had the idea that, 92 00:05:33,798 --> 00:05:36,062 "Why don't we sling a rifle on the dog's back 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,328 to make the pictures a little more interesting. 94 00:05:39,470 --> 00:05:42,030 The victim was kneeling down in front of the dog 95 00:05:42,173 --> 00:05:44,141 when the weapon slipped. 96 00:05:44,275 --> 00:05:47,403 The one round went through the victim's shin, 97 00:05:47,545 --> 00:05:48,910 the right part of his shin, 98 00:05:49,046 --> 00:05:51,105 and came out through the back of his calf. 99 00:05:51,248 --> 00:05:54,740 - Was the dog hauled off for any period of time by the police? 100 00:05:54,885 --> 00:05:56,580 - No, it wasn't. No. 101 00:05:56,721 --> 00:06:00,589 Um, in Michigan, the law basically states 102 00:06:00,725 --> 00:06:02,920 that people can commit crimes that animals 103 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:06,188 aren't some... form of, uh, you know, 104 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:07,695 whatever that can commit a crime. 105 00:06:07,832 --> 00:06:09,197 - An animal cannot commit a crime 106 00:06:09,333 --> 00:06:11,426 or be charged with a crime in this state. 107 00:06:11,569 --> 00:06:13,969 - Exactly. - Is it possible that the dog 108 00:06:14,105 --> 00:06:17,040 knew what it was doing? - That, I don't know. 109 00:06:17,174 --> 00:06:19,267 I really wouldn't be able to tell you that. 110 00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:21,537 The dog was cute dressed up as a hunter, 111 00:06:21,679 --> 00:06:24,113 there's no doubt about it. I mean, it was a funny picture, 112 00:06:24,248 --> 00:06:26,375 um, you know, to look at. 113 00:06:26,517 --> 00:06:28,485 It was... it was kind of neat. 114 00:06:30,354 --> 00:06:33,221 - Yup, this was the kind of place I was from. 115 00:06:33,357 --> 00:06:34,824 A box 116 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:36,927 of 270s. - Coming up. 117 00:06:39,830 --> 00:06:41,229 There you go. - Perfect. 118 00:06:44,635 --> 00:06:47,069 Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 119 00:06:47,204 --> 00:06:48,728 Sorry about that, sorry. 120 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,170 - So I've been discharged. 121 00:06:50,274 --> 00:06:52,299 - You don't need no gun control. You know what you need? 122 00:06:54,545 --> 00:06:56,911 We need some bullet control. 123 00:06:57,047 --> 00:06:59,914 We need to control the bullets, that's right. 124 00:07:00,050 --> 00:07:03,542 I think all bullets should cost $5,000. 125 00:07:03,687 --> 00:07:06,247 $5,000 for a bullet. You know why? 126 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:08,756 'Cause if a bullet cost $5,000, 127 00:07:08,893 --> 00:07:11,191 there'd be no more innocent bystanders. 128 00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:14,957 Every time 129 00:07:15,099 --> 00:07:16,498 somebody get shot, people are, 130 00:07:16,634 --> 00:07:18,932 "Damn, he must've did something." 131 00:07:19,069 --> 00:07:22,061 See, they put $50,000's worth of bullets in his ass!" 132 00:07:25,943 --> 00:07:28,537 And people'd think before they killed somebody 133 00:07:28,679 --> 00:07:30,544 for a bullet that cost $5,000! 134 00:07:30,681 --> 00:07:32,808 "Man, I would blow your fucking head off -- 135 00:07:32,950 --> 00:07:34,918 if I could afford it." 136 00:07:38,189 --> 00:07:40,384 I'm gonna get me another job, 137 00:07:40,524 --> 00:07:44,221 I'm gonna start saving some money, and you a dead man. 138 00:07:44,361 --> 00:07:48,297 You better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway. 139 00:07:50,601 --> 00:07:53,263 - Not far from where Charlton Heston and I grew up 140 00:07:53,337 --> 00:07:56,636 is a training ground for the Michigan Militia. 141 00:07:56,774 --> 00:07:58,139 Why do you use the bowling pins? 142 00:07:58,275 --> 00:08:01,403 - From a self-defence or whatever tactical standpoint, 143 00:08:01,545 --> 00:08:03,240 it's a small target, which also represents 144 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:06,406 the vitals on a... on a human being, 145 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:08,017 if you ever had to shoot at one. 146 00:08:10,287 --> 00:08:13,882 - The Michigan Militia became known around the world 147 00:08:14,024 --> 00:08:18,051 when, on April 19th, 1995, two guys living in Michigan 148 00:08:18,195 --> 00:08:19,856 who had attended Militia meetings, 149 00:08:19,997 --> 00:08:21,430 Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, 150 00:08:21,565 --> 00:08:23,362 blew up the federal building 151 00:08:23,501 --> 00:08:26,231 in Oklahoma City, 152 00:08:26,370 --> 00:08:28,702 killing 168 people. 153 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:30,864 The Michigan Militia wanted everyone to know 154 00:08:31,008 --> 00:08:34,375 that they were nothing like McVeigh and Nichols. 155 00:08:34,512 --> 00:08:35,877 - This is an American tradition. 156 00:08:36,013 --> 00:08:38,538 It's an American responsibility to be armed. 157 00:08:38,682 --> 00:08:41,048 If you're not armed, you're not responsible. 158 00:08:41,185 --> 00:08:43,551 Who's gonna defend your kids, the cops? 159 00:08:43,687 --> 00:08:46,884 The federal government? No, none of them. 160 00:08:47,024 --> 00:08:49,549 It's your job to defend you and yours. 161 00:08:49,693 --> 00:08:52,355 If you don't do it, you're in dereliction of duty, 162 00:08:52,496 --> 00:08:54,726 as an American. Period. 163 00:08:54,865 --> 00:08:56,924 - We're here to let them know we're here to help. 164 00:08:57,067 --> 00:08:58,898 We're not the bogeymen we're made out to be. 165 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:01,368 We're here to help and defend the people of this country. 166 00:09:01,505 --> 00:09:03,564 - I'm sure you guys are the kind of people 167 00:09:03,707 --> 00:09:05,732 that people would like to have as their neighbour. 168 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:07,901 If somebody's in need, you're there to help them. 169 00:09:08,045 --> 00:09:10,411 - Pretty much. We're all normal people. We all have regular jobs 170 00:09:10,548 --> 00:09:12,675 and this is what we do on our time. 171 00:09:12,816 --> 00:09:15,410 - What kind of a job do you have? - I'm a draftsman. 172 00:09:15,553 --> 00:09:17,646 - How about you? - Unemployed right now. 173 00:09:17,788 --> 00:09:19,585 - Frank, what do you do for a living? 174 00:09:19,723 --> 00:09:21,088 - I work for a heat trading company. 175 00:09:21,225 --> 00:09:23,420 I drive a truck for 'em. - Okay. How about you? 176 00:09:23,561 --> 00:09:28,089 - I'm a real-estate negotiator - Real-estate negotiator! 177 00:09:28,232 --> 00:09:30,257 - White collar all the way. 178 00:09:30,401 --> 00:09:32,426 - You don't bring that with you, though, do you, 179 00:09:32,570 --> 00:09:33,935 when you're negotiating the real estate? 180 00:09:34,071 --> 00:09:35,663 - No. 181 00:09:35,806 --> 00:09:37,171 - Where do you live, in suburban-- 182 00:09:37,308 --> 00:09:38,673 - Westland. - So what do you have 183 00:09:38,809 --> 00:09:41,107 in your home? - Smith & Wesson 9-millimetre. 184 00:09:41,245 --> 00:09:42,644 - Nine-millimetre? - Yeah. 185 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:44,145 - And how about you? - With hollow points. 186 00:09:44,281 --> 00:09:45,646 - Twelve gage. 187 00:09:45,783 --> 00:09:47,148 - Twelve gage at home? - Yeah. 188 00:09:47,284 --> 00:09:48,649 - How about you? - M-16. 189 00:09:48,786 --> 00:09:50,151 - At home? - Yeah. 190 00:09:50,287 --> 00:09:51,845 At the ready. - I don't agree with that, 191 00:09:51,989 --> 00:09:54,184 'cause you gotta worry about where your arms are going. 192 00:09:54,325 --> 00:09:58,193 - I know where they're gonna go when I aim and shoot. 193 00:09:58,329 --> 00:10:00,593 - Whose idea was the calendar? 194 00:10:00,731 --> 00:10:03,598 - That'd probably be Christian. 195 00:10:03,734 --> 00:10:06,601 - A picture's worth 1,000 words. A) it demonstrates a level 196 00:10:06,737 --> 00:10:09,069 of sophistication that you wouldn't expect out of Militia; 197 00:10:09,206 --> 00:10:11,834 B) you know, 198 00:10:11,976 --> 00:10:14,103 we're people too. - Right. 199 00:10:14,244 --> 00:10:16,269 - And we have a lot of fun with it. 200 00:10:16,413 --> 00:10:17,778 - Right. - There was a fundraiser. 201 00:10:17,915 --> 00:10:20,816 It showed, um, that we're not so serious, you know. 202 00:10:20,951 --> 00:10:23,419 We're not these conspiracy nuts who wouldn't want our pictures 203 00:10:23,554 --> 00:10:27,547 to get out. The idea... it was a fundraiser, you know... 204 00:10:27,691 --> 00:10:31,024 - I've had guns, um... 205 00:10:31,161 --> 00:10:33,391 pretty much since I was old enough to... 206 00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:38,194 to have them. And I learned how to use them, um... 207 00:10:38,335 --> 00:10:39,927 You're silly! 208 00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:43,039 Uh, because being a female, number one, 209 00:10:43,173 --> 00:10:45,573 I felt it was important to be able to protect myself 210 00:10:45,709 --> 00:10:47,301 with the best means possible. 211 00:10:47,444 --> 00:10:49,571 And one of those means is having a gun. 212 00:10:49,713 --> 00:10:51,476 When a criminal breaks into your house, 213 00:10:51,615 --> 00:10:53,378 who's the first person you're gonna call? 214 00:10:53,517 --> 00:10:57,453 Most people will call the police because they have guns. 215 00:10:57,588 --> 00:11:02,116 Cut out the middleman. Take care of your own family yourself. 216 00:11:02,259 --> 00:11:06,719 If you're not going to protect your family, who is? 217 00:11:06,864 --> 00:11:09,162 - We're not racist, we're not extremist, 218 00:11:09,299 --> 00:11:12,393 we're not fundamentalist, we're not terrorists or militants 219 00:11:12,536 --> 00:11:15,061 or other such nonsense. - We're citizens. 220 00:11:15,205 --> 00:11:18,606 - We're just concerned citizens. We have a desire 221 00:11:18,742 --> 00:11:20,676 to fulfil our responsibilities and duties as Americans, 222 00:11:20,811 --> 00:11:23,609 and armed citizenry is part of that. 223 00:11:28,819 --> 00:11:32,346 - What do you grow here? - Right now, there's tofu beans, 224 00:11:34,892 --> 00:11:36,723 soy beans. Tofu-soy beans. 225 00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:39,920 - You're a tofu farmer. - Yeah. Yeah, food farmer. 226 00:11:40,064 --> 00:11:41,554 I'm a food farmer. - Food. 227 00:11:41,699 --> 00:11:44,293 - I grow food for people to eat. 228 00:11:44,435 --> 00:11:47,268 No herbicides, no pesticides on that stuff. 229 00:11:47,404 --> 00:11:49,634 - Right. All natural. - Right. 230 00:11:49,773 --> 00:11:52,003 - Yeah. Better. - Certified organic. 231 00:11:52,142 --> 00:11:53,803 - Uh-huh. Healthier. - Yeah. 232 00:11:53,944 --> 00:11:55,309 Basically, yeah. 233 00:11:55,446 --> 00:11:58,938 This is James Nichols, the brother of Terry Nichols. 234 00:11:59,083 --> 00:12:02,109 James graduated from high school the same year I did, 235 00:12:02,252 --> 00:12:03,651 in the district next to mine. 236 00:12:03,787 --> 00:12:06,255 On this farm in Decker, Michigan, 237 00:12:06,390 --> 00:12:08,824 McVeigh and the Nichols brothers made practice bombs 238 00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:11,792 before Oklahoma City. 239 00:12:11,929 --> 00:12:14,056 Terry and James were both arrested in connection 240 00:12:14,198 --> 00:12:16,223 to the bombing. U.S. attorneys 241 00:12:16,366 --> 00:12:18,960 formally linked the Nichols brothers of Michigan 242 00:12:19,103 --> 00:12:21,003 with Oklahoma bomb suspect Timothy McVeigh. 243 00:12:21,138 --> 00:12:22,901 Officials charged James, who was at the hearing, 244 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,736 and Terry, who was not, with conspiring 245 00:12:25,876 --> 00:12:28,401 to make and possess small bombs. 246 00:12:28,545 --> 00:12:31,571 - Terry Nichols was convicted and received a life sentence. 247 00:12:31,715 --> 00:12:35,481 Timothy McVeigh was executed. But the feds 248 00:12:35,619 --> 00:12:37,450 didn't have the goods on James, 249 00:12:37,588 --> 00:12:40,557 so the charges were dropped. - I'm just glad 250 00:12:40,691 --> 00:12:43,592 to be out and free, so I can get on with my life. 251 00:12:43,727 --> 00:12:45,092 - Did Timothy McVeigh ever stay here? 252 00:12:45,229 --> 00:12:48,255 - Yes. Yes. He stayed here several times. 253 00:12:48,398 --> 00:12:51,128 For the longest period, about three months or so, I dunno. 254 00:12:51,268 --> 00:12:52,758 But, uh, he was a nice guy. 255 00:12:52,903 --> 00:12:54,666 - Decent guy? - Oh, yeah. 256 00:12:54,805 --> 00:12:56,170 - They didn't find anything on this farm. 257 00:12:56,306 --> 00:12:57,671 - As to what, 258 00:12:57,808 --> 00:12:59,673 bomb-making material? - Any kind of explosives. 259 00:12:59,810 --> 00:13:03,268 - Uh, yeah, I had blasting caps, dynamite blasting caps, 260 00:13:03,413 --> 00:13:05,608 dynamite fuse, black powder, you know? 261 00:13:05,749 --> 00:13:07,944 For muzzle loaders and... Sure. 262 00:13:08,085 --> 00:13:11,577 Diesel fuel, fertilizer, but, uh, that is normal farm stuff 263 00:13:11,722 --> 00:13:14,953 that is no way connected any way whatsoever to, uh, 264 00:13:15,092 --> 00:13:17,526 the Oklahoma City bombing or bomb making. 265 00:13:17,661 --> 00:13:21,222 Them people - law enforcement, if you wanna call 'em that - 266 00:13:21,365 --> 00:13:24,562 were here and they were shaking in their shoes. 267 00:13:24,701 --> 00:13:27,898 They were physically shaking. Scared to death. 268 00:13:28,038 --> 00:13:29,403 - Of? 269 00:13:29,540 --> 00:13:32,065 - Because they thought this was gonna be another Waco. 270 00:13:32,209 --> 00:13:35,576 Because certain people... 271 00:13:35,712 --> 00:13:38,545 namely my ex-wife and other people, 272 00:13:38,682 --> 00:13:41,742 said I'm a radical, I'm a wild man, 273 00:13:41,885 --> 00:13:45,412 I got a gun under every arm, down every leg and every shoe, 274 00:13:45,556 --> 00:13:46,921 every corner of the house. 275 00:13:47,057 --> 00:13:49,890 You say anything to me, I'll shoot ya. 276 00:13:50,027 --> 00:13:53,053 If the people find out how they've been ripped off 277 00:13:53,197 --> 00:13:58,260 and... and enslaved in this country by the government, 278 00:13:58,402 --> 00:14:03,101 by the powers-to-be... 279 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,438 they will revolt, with anger, 280 00:14:07,578 --> 00:14:09,773 with merciless anger. 281 00:14:09,913 --> 00:14:11,904 There'll be blood running in the streets. 282 00:14:12,049 --> 00:14:13,812 When a government turns tyrannical, 283 00:14:13,951 --> 00:14:17,079 it is your duty to overthrow it. 284 00:14:17,221 --> 00:14:18,586 - Well, why not use Gandhi's way? 285 00:14:18,722 --> 00:14:20,212 He didn't have any guns, 286 00:14:20,357 --> 00:14:22,154 and he beat the British empire. 287 00:14:22,292 --> 00:14:24,760 - I'm not familiar with that. 288 00:14:29,066 --> 00:14:30,658 - Oscoda has a bad habit of raising psychos. 289 00:14:30,767 --> 00:14:32,132 Bad habit of it. 290 00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:33,759 - This is Brent. 291 00:14:33,904 --> 00:14:36,566 And this is his buddy DJ. 292 00:14:36,707 --> 00:14:38,402 They live in Oscoda, Michigan, 293 00:14:38,542 --> 00:14:40,407 across the bay from the Nichols farm. 294 00:14:40,544 --> 00:14:41,909 Eric Harris, 295 00:14:42,045 --> 00:14:43,910 who would later go on to commit the massacre 296 00:14:44,047 --> 00:14:45,912 at Columbine High School in Colorado, 297 00:14:46,049 --> 00:14:47,414 spent part of his childhood here. 298 00:14:47,551 --> 00:14:52,215 Eric lived on the air-force base in Oscoda, 299 00:14:52,356 --> 00:14:55,621 where his dad flew planes during the Gulf War. 300 00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:58,421 Twenty percent of all the bombs dropped in that war 301 00:14:58,562 --> 00:15:01,622 were from planes that took off from Oscoda. 302 00:15:01,765 --> 00:15:04,928 I asked Brent if he remembered anything about Eric. 303 00:15:05,068 --> 00:15:07,093 - I never knew him, but I knew of him. 304 00:15:07,237 --> 00:15:09,933 He left here before I got here. I've only lived here seven years 305 00:15:10,073 --> 00:15:12,041 off and on. - He was about the same age 306 00:15:12,175 --> 00:15:14,370 as you, so you must have people in your class-- 307 00:15:14,511 --> 00:15:17,173 - A friend of mine knows him, he was in class with him. 308 00:15:17,314 --> 00:15:19,111 He's lived here all his life. 309 00:15:19,249 --> 00:15:21,877 - I went to school with him and it shocked me to hear it 310 00:15:22,019 --> 00:15:23,543 on the news. 311 00:15:23,687 --> 00:15:27,783 That especially a kid from here would be doing that. 312 00:15:27,925 --> 00:15:29,722 - I didn't last too long in high school. 313 00:15:29,860 --> 00:15:31,225 I got kicked out, I got expelled. 314 00:15:31,361 --> 00:15:33,727 - Why was that? - I had a run-in with a kid 315 00:15:33,864 --> 00:15:37,231 one time and I pulled a weapon on him, I pulled a gun on him. 316 00:15:37,367 --> 00:15:38,857 - What kind of gun? - Nine-millimetre. 317 00:15:39,002 --> 00:15:41,197 I could've made a mess out of that situation. 318 00:15:41,338 --> 00:15:43,238 - Could've been worse. - Could've been a lot worse. 319 00:15:43,373 --> 00:15:45,034 - Could've been Eric Harris. - It could've been. 320 00:15:45,175 --> 00:15:47,439 - So they kicked you out? - Yeah, they kicked me out 321 00:15:47,577 --> 00:15:51,707 for 380 days or 165 days, whatever a full school year is. 322 00:15:51,848 --> 00:15:55,215 - For the longest time, that's what my plan was, to move out 323 00:15:55,352 --> 00:15:57,445 to Colorado. - Colorado? 324 00:15:57,587 --> 00:15:59,987 - 'Cause I've got family out there. 325 00:16:00,123 --> 00:16:02,318 Matter of fact, one of my uncles is a janitor 326 00:16:02,459 --> 00:16:03,824 for Columbine School. 327 00:16:03,961 --> 00:16:05,326 - Really? - Yeah. 328 00:16:05,462 --> 00:16:07,896 - After Columbine, what was it like here in Oscoda? 329 00:16:08,031 --> 00:16:10,056 - My name was second-highest on the bomb list, 330 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,192 because of the reputation you get in this town. 331 00:16:13,337 --> 00:16:15,862 - Why? You mean they did a list of-- 332 00:16:16,006 --> 00:16:18,031 - Of suspects. - Of students who potentially-- 333 00:16:18,175 --> 00:16:19,699 - Yeah. - ...would call in a bomb threat 334 00:16:19,843 --> 00:16:21,208 after Columbine? - Yes. 335 00:16:21,345 --> 00:16:23,210 - And you were number two on the list? 336 00:16:23,347 --> 00:16:25,542 - I was second or third on the list, yeah. 337 00:16:25,682 --> 00:16:29,209 - Why is that? - Because the whole fact is, 338 00:16:29,353 --> 00:16:31,878 like I said, this town really gets people down. 339 00:16:32,022 --> 00:16:34,388 - Yeah, but why did they single you out? 340 00:16:34,524 --> 00:16:38,551 - Because I was a troubled kid. - You were in trouble in school? 341 00:16:38,695 --> 00:16:40,595 - Oh, yeah. Why did they put you 342 00:16:40,731 --> 00:16:43,222 number two on their list, after Columbine, 343 00:16:43,367 --> 00:16:47,064 of the students that could be a threat? 344 00:16:47,204 --> 00:16:50,037 Come on, there must be a reason. - Well, okay. The thing is, 345 00:16:50,173 --> 00:16:52,573 I have a thing, it's called the "Anarchist Cookbook." 346 00:16:52,709 --> 00:16:55,439 It shows you how to make bombs and stuff like that. 347 00:16:55,579 --> 00:16:57,376 If there's anything that went wrong, 348 00:16:57,514 --> 00:16:59,243 they're gonna come to me first. 349 00:16:59,383 --> 00:17:01,749 And I don't need that. - Just 'cause you owned a copy 350 00:17:01,885 --> 00:17:03,910 of the book? - Just because I own a copy-- 351 00:17:04,054 --> 00:17:07,421 - Never made a bomb yourself? - No. Oh, I've made 'em. 352 00:17:07,557 --> 00:17:10,082 It was nothing big; it wasn't even as big as a pipe bomb. 353 00:17:10,227 --> 00:17:12,525 It was just... some make it like a little tennis-ball bomb 354 00:17:12,662 --> 00:17:14,061 or something like that. 355 00:17:16,333 --> 00:17:20,292 Out of the "Anarchist Cookbook," the latest thing I built... 356 00:17:20,437 --> 00:17:23,031 I think, would have to be... I think I made it, like, 357 00:17:23,173 --> 00:17:26,870 about a good five-gallon drum of napalm. 358 00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:29,911 You know, homemade napalm. 359 00:17:30,047 --> 00:17:31,412 - Kids knew that you were doing this? 360 00:17:31,548 --> 00:17:33,379 - Yeah. - So you were number two, then, 361 00:17:33,517 --> 00:17:34,882 on the list. - Right. 362 00:17:35,018 --> 00:17:36,883 - Who was number one? - I don't know. 363 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:40,547 They never told me that name. Which kind of made me mad. 364 00:17:40,690 --> 00:17:43,215 'Cause I didn't make it to number one. 365 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,885 I know it's kind of silly, but I guess 366 00:17:46,029 --> 00:17:49,726 it'd been kind of an ego thing, knowing that I was number one 367 00:17:49,866 --> 00:17:53,302 at something in Oscoda, even if it was a bomb-threat list. 368 00:17:53,437 --> 00:17:55,302 - Do you believe it was right 369 00:17:55,439 --> 00:17:57,737 to blow up the building in Oklahoma City? 370 00:17:57,874 --> 00:18:00,069 I'm not saying you did it. - No. No, no, no. 371 00:18:00,210 --> 00:18:02,576 - I'm just saying: was it right? - Why was it "blowed up"? 372 00:18:02,712 --> 00:18:04,976 That's a good question. Why was that building "blowed up"? 373 00:18:05,115 --> 00:18:07,913 And who blew it up? - But if someone did it, 374 00:18:08,051 --> 00:18:09,575 it would be wrong. - Yeah. 375 00:18:09,719 --> 00:18:12,187 - It is wrong to take the lives of those people. 376 00:18:12,322 --> 00:18:14,620 - Yeah. 377 00:18:14,758 --> 00:18:19,024 I use the pen. 'Cause the pen is mightier than the sword. 378 00:18:19,162 --> 00:18:23,656 But you always must keep a sword handy, for when the pen fails. 379 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,997 I sleep with a .44 Magnum under my pillow. 380 00:18:27,137 --> 00:18:30,368 - Come on... That's what everyone says. 381 00:18:30,507 --> 00:18:32,532 Is that true? - It's true. 382 00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:34,871 - If we were to go-- - The whole world knows that. 383 00:18:35,011 --> 00:18:38,037 - ...look under your pillow right now, would we see a .44 Magnum? 384 00:18:38,181 --> 00:18:39,705 - Yeah. - Honestly? 385 00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:42,512 Would you take us and show us? Right now? 386 00:18:42,652 --> 00:18:45,018 He took me into his bedroom, but told the cameraman 387 00:18:45,155 --> 00:18:46,850 to stay out. Sure enough, 388 00:18:46,990 --> 00:18:50,050 there was a .44 Magnum under his pillow. 389 00:18:50,193 --> 00:18:52,388 There it is. Okay. Is it loaded? 390 00:18:52,529 --> 00:18:53,996 - Aye-yay-yay. 391 00:18:54,064 --> 00:18:55,827 - Okay. I believe you. 392 00:18:55,899 --> 00:18:58,834 NICHOLS HAS COCKED THE GUN AND PUT IT TO HIS TEMPLE. 393 00:18:58,902 --> 00:19:01,200 Don't do that! 394 00:19:01,271 --> 00:19:02,966 You put the gun to your head. - I know! 395 00:19:03,106 --> 00:19:05,301 - Jeez! - I'm not gonna get hurt! 396 00:19:05,442 --> 00:19:08,172 - This is loaded. - It's loaded, it's safe. 397 00:19:08,311 --> 00:19:11,246 You've got to pull the trigger, pull the hammer and shoot it. 398 00:19:11,381 --> 00:19:14,248 - Mm, put the hammer back. - No one has a right to tell me 399 00:19:14,384 --> 00:19:16,944 that I can't have it. That is protected 400 00:19:17,087 --> 00:19:19,248 in our constitution. - Where's it say a handgun 401 00:19:19,389 --> 00:19:21,254 is protected? - No, gun. We should... 402 00:19:21,391 --> 00:19:22,915 Every citizen-- - It doesn't say "gun"! 403 00:19:23,059 --> 00:19:24,924 It says "arms." - Arms. What is arms? 404 00:19:25,061 --> 00:19:27,256 - Could be a nuclear weapon. - It's not these-- That's right, 405 00:19:27,397 --> 00:19:29,763 it could be a nuclear weapon! - You think you should have 406 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,266 the right to have weapons-grade plutonium here on the farm? 407 00:19:32,402 --> 00:19:33,767 - We should be able to have anything-- 408 00:19:33,904 --> 00:19:35,269 - Should you have weapons-grade plutonium? 409 00:19:35,405 --> 00:19:37,600 - I don't want it. - But should you have the right 410 00:19:37,741 --> 00:19:40,107 to have it if you did want it? - That should be restricted. 411 00:19:40,243 --> 00:19:42,734 - Ah! Ah, so you do believe in some restrictions. 412 00:19:42,879 --> 00:19:46,781 - Well, there's wackos out there. 413 00:19:46,917 --> 00:19:49,943 "Happiness is a warm gun 414 00:19:50,086 --> 00:19:53,112 "Bang bang shoot shoot" The town of Virgin, 415 00:19:53,256 --> 00:19:57,989 Utah, has passed a law requiring all residents to own guns. 416 00:20:14,277 --> 00:20:16,575 - Cary McWilliams proudly displays the target 417 00:20:16,713 --> 00:20:18,977 he used to pass his shooting test. 418 00:20:19,115 --> 00:20:20,946 But the thing is, he can't see it. 419 00:20:21,084 --> 00:20:24,076 He's blind. 420 00:20:24,221 --> 00:20:26,086 Cary has had a love affair with guns 421 00:20:26,223 --> 00:20:29,283 since he first got his hands on an M-16 as a teenager. 422 00:20:29,426 --> 00:20:33,590 - I'm actually most comfortable with assault rifles. 423 00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:35,595 - Woo-hoo! 424 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:55,209 - This is a great place to raise your children. 425 00:20:55,352 --> 00:20:57,343 A really great place to raise your kids. 426 00:20:57,487 --> 00:21:00,945 Very close-knit community we have here. 427 00:21:01,091 --> 00:21:03,355 Everybody looks out for everybody. 428 00:21:03,493 --> 00:21:05,518 - Good people. - Good people. 429 00:21:05,662 --> 00:21:09,462 - This just happens to be a place where two young men 430 00:21:09,599 --> 00:21:11,897 made very bad, very wrong decisions. 431 00:21:12,035 --> 00:21:15,562 And there's been international notoriety as a result of it. 432 00:21:15,705 --> 00:21:17,070 Other than that, 433 00:21:17,207 --> 00:21:19,402 I don't know that Littleton is a lot different 434 00:21:19,542 --> 00:21:22,636 than a whole lot of other suburban communities. 435 00:21:26,783 --> 00:21:29,081 Economic Development P.R. Video 436 00:21:29,152 --> 00:21:31,120 - Good morning, Mr. Edwards, members of the board. 437 00:21:31,187 --> 00:21:33,849 I'd like to report that I've found the perfect location 438 00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:36,857 for our new corporate office, South Metro Denver. 439 00:21:36,993 --> 00:21:38,790 You can see, 440 00:21:38,928 --> 00:21:41,590 I don't need these. Because South Metro Denver 441 00:21:41,731 --> 00:21:44,757 has about the same amount of sunshine and precipitation 442 00:21:44,901 --> 00:21:46,664 as Southern California. It's so incredible, 443 00:21:46,803 --> 00:21:49,328 you're just gonna have to see it for yourselves. 444 00:21:49,472 --> 00:21:51,633 How's this look, Mr. Edwards? 445 00:22:01,384 --> 00:22:03,716 Denny Fennel Home Security Consultant 446 00:22:03,787 --> 00:22:06,255 - We're south of Denver, in a community called Littleton, 447 00:22:06,323 --> 00:22:08,291 and this house is pretty much 448 00:22:08,425 --> 00:22:11,758 your average middle-class suburban home. 449 00:22:11,895 --> 00:22:13,726 The burglar or the rapist is still here 450 00:22:13,863 --> 00:22:15,228 in the neighbourhood somewhere. 451 00:22:15,365 --> 00:22:18,061 And so citizens sometimes think that... 452 00:22:18,201 --> 00:22:19,896 I have people tell me all the time-- 453 00:22:20,036 --> 00:22:23,767 - Where exactly is the burglar or rapist right now? 454 00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:26,501 If I was to try and stab you through this, right here, 455 00:22:26,643 --> 00:22:29,077 you're gonna have to be really close. Right? 456 00:22:29,212 --> 00:22:31,237 - And here's the bottom line on this. 457 00:22:31,381 --> 00:22:32,746 - What if I had a spear? 458 00:22:32,882 --> 00:22:36,340 - Now, downstairs is where the safe-room was constructed, 459 00:22:36,486 --> 00:22:39,421 and this is a solid-core door, a very heavy door. 460 00:22:39,556 --> 00:22:42,582 And now, the criminal has to break through this door, 461 00:22:42,726 --> 00:22:44,250 so you've created another barrier. 462 00:22:44,394 --> 00:22:47,227 - An axe would do it. - An axe would do it. 463 00:22:47,364 --> 00:22:49,924 I think that Columbine did a couple of things. 464 00:22:50,066 --> 00:22:54,264 One is that it changed how we talk. That's the first thing. 465 00:22:54,404 --> 00:22:56,599 - How's that? - Well, for instance, 466 00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:58,867 if I say "Columbine," everybody knows what it means. 467 00:22:59,008 --> 00:23:05,106 I don't have to explain to you that Columbine... 468 00:23:05,248 --> 00:23:07,944 - Is... What's wrong? - Nothing, I just... 469 00:23:08,084 --> 00:23:10,211 - What's wrong? - I-- I just... 470 00:23:10,353 --> 00:23:14,050 sometimes Columbine bothers me. I'll be fine. Just a minute. 471 00:23:14,190 --> 00:23:16,750 - That's okay, that's okay. - Um... 472 00:23:20,864 --> 00:23:23,924 There... there's something, um... 473 00:23:25,869 --> 00:23:31,569 something overwhelming about that kind of... viciousness, 474 00:23:31,708 --> 00:23:38,739 that kind of predatory action, that kind of indiscriminate, uh, 475 00:23:38,882 --> 00:23:41,282 killing. 476 00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:45,352 World's Largest Weapons Maker 477 00:23:45,622 --> 00:23:47,749 - This facility, where we're located right now... 478 00:23:47,891 --> 00:23:49,859 Evan McCollum Lockheed Martin Public Relations 479 00:23:50,059 --> 00:23:52,027 and two other major facilities where our employees work 480 00:23:52,095 --> 00:23:54,427 are either in or very near Littleton. 481 00:23:54,564 --> 00:23:58,591 So we have over 5,000 employees at these facilities, 482 00:23:58,735 --> 00:24:01,101 quite a number of whom live in Littleton, 483 00:24:01,237 --> 00:24:03,967 many of whom have children who attend Columbine High School. 484 00:24:04,107 --> 00:24:06,940 I suppose in one way you could say that what happened 485 00:24:07,076 --> 00:24:09,340 at Columbine High School is a microcosm, uh... 486 00:24:09,479 --> 00:24:12,539 of what happens throughout the world. 487 00:24:12,682 --> 00:24:15,014 - You know the signs that we see around here, 488 00:24:15,151 --> 00:24:16,948 the ones that say: "We Are Columbine," 489 00:24:17,086 --> 00:24:20,647 is that how you, Lockheed Martin, feels, 490 00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:22,553 that you're the biggest employer here in Littleton, 491 00:24:22,692 --> 00:24:24,557 you're the biggest weapons- maker? "We Are Columbine." 492 00:24:24,694 --> 00:24:27,390 - I think we probably embody that spirit, 493 00:24:27,530 --> 00:24:29,555 that, yeah, we're all members of this community 494 00:24:29,699 --> 00:24:32,395 and that it behoves us to help one another and to reach out 495 00:24:32,535 --> 00:24:33,900 to assist one another, yeah. 496 00:24:34,037 --> 00:24:36,062 - He told us that no one in Littleton, 497 00:24:36,206 --> 00:24:37,571 including the executives 498 00:24:37,707 --> 00:24:40,904 at Lockheed, could figure out why the boys at Columbine 499 00:24:41,044 --> 00:24:42,739 had resorted to violence. 500 00:24:42,879 --> 00:24:44,574 - Why would kids do this? 501 00:24:44,714 --> 00:24:49,413 Uh, some of the root of that probably has to do 502 00:24:49,552 --> 00:24:52,419 with their anger about various issues 503 00:24:52,555 --> 00:24:54,921 and we became aware of a program 504 00:24:55,058 --> 00:24:56,855 that provides anger-management training. 505 00:24:56,993 --> 00:25:00,053 And so we made a $100,000 contribution 506 00:25:00,196 --> 00:25:03,063 to the Jefferson County schools to use this training 507 00:25:03,199 --> 00:25:07,101 in the schools. We hope to help both teachers and students 508 00:25:07,237 --> 00:25:11,731 learn alternative ways to deal with anger. 509 00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:14,207 - So you don't think our kids say to themselves: 510 00:25:14,344 --> 00:25:15,902 "Well, gee, Dad goes off 511 00:25:16,045 --> 00:25:18,275 to the factory every day and, you know, 512 00:25:18,414 --> 00:25:22,077 he built missiles." These are weapons of mass destruction. 513 00:25:22,218 --> 00:25:24,209 What's the difference between that mass destruction 514 00:25:24,354 --> 00:25:27,881 and the mass destruction over at Columbine High School? 515 00:25:28,024 --> 00:25:29,855 - I guess I don't see that connection, 516 00:25:29,993 --> 00:25:33,895 that specific connection, because the missiles 517 00:25:34,030 --> 00:25:36,863 that you're talking about were built and designed to defend us 518 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,128 from somebody else who would be aggressors against us. 519 00:25:40,270 --> 00:25:42,500 Societies and countries and governments do things 520 00:25:42,639 --> 00:25:44,402 that annoy one another. 521 00:25:44,541 --> 00:25:48,204 But we have to learn to deal with that annoyance 522 00:25:48,344 --> 00:25:51,643 or that anger or that frustration in appropriate ways. 523 00:25:51,781 --> 00:25:53,442 We don't get irritated with somebody 524 00:25:53,583 --> 00:25:55,448 and just 'cause we're mad at them, uh, 525 00:25:55,585 --> 00:25:59,487 drop a bomb or shoot at them, or fire a missile at them. 526 00:26:03,226 --> 00:26:07,890 1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. 527 00:26:08,798 --> 00:26:12,495 U.S. installs Shah as dictator. 528 00:26:13,169 --> 00:26:16,366 1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 529 00:26:16,506 --> 00:26:18,303 200,000 civilians killed. 530 00:26:19,142 --> 00:26:23,670 1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem. 531 00:26:24,948 --> 00:26:29,146 1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia. 532 00:26:29,819 --> 00:26:32,652 September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. 533 00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:35,656 Democratically-elected President Salvator Allende assassinated. 534 00:26:35,992 --> 00:26:38,927 Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 535 00:26:39,295 --> 00:26:41,695 5,000 Chileans murdered. 536 00:26:42,198 --> 00:26:45,429 1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 537 00:26:46,069 --> 00:26:50,529 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed. 538 00:26:52,475 --> 00:26:57,037 1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. 539 00:26:57,180 --> 00:27:00,616 CIA gives them $3 billion. 540 00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:06,780 1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die. 541 00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:13,426 1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians. 542 00:27:14,564 --> 00:27:18,523 1987: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis. 543 00:27:20,336 --> 00:27:25,137 1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. 544 00:27:26,676 --> 00:27:30,840 U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 545 00:27:32,015 --> 00:27:35,542 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties. 546 00:27:36,052 --> 00:27:39,886 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S. 547 00:27:40,023 --> 00:27:42,753 1991: U.S. enters Iraq. 548 00:27:42,892 --> 00:27:45,725 Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait. 549 00:27:46,129 --> 00:27:50,259 1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. 550 00:27:51,401 --> 00:27:54,165 Factory turns out to be making aspirin. 551 00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:58,404 1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. 552 00:27:58,541 --> 00:28:03,911 U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions. 553 00:28:04,447 --> 00:28:10,443 2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid." 554 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:17,623 Sept.11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people. 555 00:28:20,329 --> 00:28:24,356 Oh my goodness! Oh my word! 556 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,025 Oh my word! 557 00:28:30,339 --> 00:28:33,399 - South of Denver in Littleton, on the grounds 558 00:28:33,543 --> 00:28:35,033 of the U.S. Air Force Academy, 559 00:28:35,178 --> 00:28:36,907 there sits an actual B-52 bomber. 560 00:28:37,046 --> 00:28:40,038 The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims 561 00:28:40,183 --> 00:28:42,674 that this plane killed Vietnamese people 562 00:28:42,819 --> 00:28:45,515 on Christmas eve, 1972. 563 00:28:45,655 --> 00:28:50,285 It was the largest bombing campaign of the Vietnam War. 564 00:28:50,426 --> 00:28:52,257 Just outside Denver is Rocky Flats 565 00:28:52,395 --> 00:28:54,158 the largest plutonium- weapons-making factory 566 00:28:54,297 --> 00:28:55,662 in the world, 567 00:28:55,798 --> 00:28:59,256 and now a massive radioactive dump. 568 00:28:59,402 --> 00:29:01,461 A few miles away, buried inside a mountain, 569 00:29:01,604 --> 00:29:04,732 is NORAD, which oversees our nuclear missiles, 570 00:29:04,874 --> 00:29:06,501 many of which dot 571 00:29:06,642 --> 00:29:08,269 the Colorado landscape. 572 00:29:11,647 --> 00:29:15,913 And once a month, Lockheed transports one of its rockets, 573 00:29:16,052 --> 00:29:17,417 with its Pentagon payload, 574 00:29:17,553 --> 00:29:19,077 through the streets of Littleton, 575 00:29:19,222 --> 00:29:21,417 passing nearby Columbine High School 576 00:29:21,557 --> 00:29:23,525 on its way to an air-force base 577 00:29:23,659 --> 00:29:25,752 on the other side of Denver. 578 00:29:25,895 --> 00:29:28,591 The rockets are transported in the middle of the night, 579 00:29:28,731 --> 00:29:34,169 while the children of Columbine are asleep. 580 00:29:42,812 --> 00:29:46,407 Largest one day bombing by U.S. in Kosovo war 581 00:29:46,582 --> 00:29:48,550 - Twenty-two NATO missiles 582 00:29:48,684 --> 00:29:51,209 fell on the village of Bogutovac near Kraljevo. 583 00:29:51,354 --> 00:29:54,846 Deadly cargo was dropped upon the residential part 584 00:29:54,991 --> 00:29:56,219 of the village. 585 00:29:56,359 --> 00:29:59,385 - We're striking hard at Serbia's machinery of repression, 586 00:29:59,529 --> 00:30:01,292 while making a deliberate effort 587 00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:03,898 to minimize harm to innocent people. 588 00:30:04,033 --> 00:30:08,129 - On the hit list were a local hospital and primary school. 589 00:30:09,772 --> 00:30:12,240 - We all know there has been a terrible shooting 590 00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:15,310 at a high school in Littleton, Colorado. 591 00:30:15,444 --> 00:30:18,971 I hope the American people will be praying for the students, 592 00:30:19,115 --> 00:30:20,912 the parents and the teachers. 593 00:30:21,050 --> 00:30:23,541 And we'll wait for events to unfold 594 00:30:23,686 --> 00:30:25,847 and then there'll be more to say. 595 00:30:27,623 --> 00:30:28,954 - Jefferson County, 911. 596 00:30:29,192 --> 00:30:30,659 - There's some boy at Columbine High School, someone killed... 597 00:30:30,893 --> 00:30:32,588 - Do you know if anybody's injured? 598 00:30:32,695 --> 00:30:34,219 - Yes. - They've got pipe bombs, 599 00:30:34,330 --> 00:30:35,922 pipe bombs... 600 00:30:36,065 --> 00:30:37,692 - You're shitting me. - I'm not. 601 00:30:37,834 --> 00:30:39,768 - Student hit in the spine at Columbine. 602 00:30:39,902 --> 00:30:41,597 - Okay. - We've got... 603 00:30:41,737 --> 00:30:43,671 - He's shot in the head. - He's shot in the head? 604 00:30:43,806 --> 00:30:45,933 - Deputy cashier's office. - We have automatic weapons, 605 00:30:46,075 --> 00:30:47,440 okay? - Yes. 606 00:30:47,577 --> 00:30:50,102 - All right. Can you get us lots and lots of paramedics? 607 00:30:50,246 --> 00:30:53,943 - So he's still under an attack? - Yes, sir, the school is. 608 00:30:54,083 --> 00:30:56,608 - We got a couple of kids out in the hall that are shot, 609 00:30:56,752 --> 00:30:59,619 so they're trying to get to them. Do not let anybody else in 610 00:30:59,755 --> 00:31:02,553 until we tell them. - Jefferson County 911. 611 00:31:02,692 --> 00:31:04,284 - Hi, it's Izzy Povich at NBC News. 612 00:31:04,427 --> 00:31:06,258 We're calling about the school shooting. 613 00:31:06,395 --> 00:31:08,955 We're on the air live right now on MSNBC. 614 00:31:09,098 --> 00:31:11,566 Can you-- Is that something you could just, literally, 615 00:31:11,701 --> 00:31:13,828 patch through to my desk, 616 00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:16,404 or you could tell us on the air? I could put you through 617 00:31:16,539 --> 00:31:17,904 right now-- - I understand that... 618 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,905 - Now they said he's gone to the library; 619 00:31:20,042 --> 00:31:21,407 he stayed in the building. 620 00:31:21,544 --> 00:31:23,739 He's gone into the library and he's in the building. 621 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,905 - Hi, this is Stephanie Gold from Dateline. How you doing? 622 00:31:26,048 --> 00:31:27,572 - Good, how are you? - Fine, thanks. 623 00:31:27,717 --> 00:31:30,242 - I love your show. - Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you. 624 00:31:30,386 --> 00:31:32,877 - I watch it every night. - Thank you. 625 00:31:33,022 --> 00:31:35,752 - Jefferson County 911. - Yes, I'm a teacher 626 00:31:35,892 --> 00:31:39,191 at Columbine High School. There is a shooter here with a gun. 627 00:31:39,328 --> 00:31:41,922 He just shot out a window. - Has anybody been injured? 628 00:31:42,064 --> 00:31:45,431 - Yes! And the school is in a panic 629 00:31:45,568 --> 00:31:48,935 and I'm in the library. I've got students down. 630 00:31:49,071 --> 00:31:50,766 Under the tables, kids! 631 00:31:50,907 --> 00:31:53,273 Heads under the tables! I saw a student outside! 632 00:31:53,409 --> 00:31:55,502 Okay, 633 00:31:55,645 --> 00:31:58,443 I was on hall duty, I saw a gun! "What's going on out there?!" 634 00:31:58,581 --> 00:32:01,277 He turned the gun straight at us and he shot, and my God, 635 00:32:01,417 --> 00:32:02,782 the window went out. 636 00:32:02,919 --> 00:32:05,513 The kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. 637 00:32:05,655 --> 00:32:07,020 - We've got help on the way, ma'am. 638 00:32:07,156 --> 00:32:08,851 - Oh God! - Stay on line with me. 639 00:32:08,991 --> 00:32:12,586 - Oh God! 640 00:32:12,728 --> 00:32:15,026 - I think he's shooting in the library right now. 641 00:32:15,164 --> 00:32:17,860 He's firing shots from the library. 642 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,627 - Firing shots in the library. - ...our way. 643 00:32:19,769 --> 00:32:22,465 Do we need to leave? Okay, hold on. 644 00:32:22,605 --> 00:32:24,698 - ...inside the cafeteria 645 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,604 I'm gonna have to try and get outta here and call you back. 646 00:32:27,743 --> 00:32:30,041 - I called in before, trying to find out 647 00:32:30,179 --> 00:32:32,545 where I'm supposed to go and they put me on hold 648 00:32:32,682 --> 00:32:35,549 for freaking ever! - Hi, it's Wendy at CNN still. 649 00:32:35,685 --> 00:32:38,620 - Hi. We're just taking names and numbers for the press. 650 00:32:38,754 --> 00:32:42,212 - Fox has somebody from your office on now-- 651 00:32:42,358 --> 00:32:43,882 - We've talked to a bunch of people 652 00:32:44,026 --> 00:32:45,493 and we can only do so many, 653 00:32:45,628 --> 00:32:47,562 we got so many more calls coming in. 654 00:32:47,697 --> 00:32:49,528 - I gotta get to my daughter at Columbine. 655 00:32:49,665 --> 00:32:52,498 I've been trying for an hour, I can't get anywhere near there... 656 00:32:52,635 --> 00:32:54,227 - Sir, okay, calm down, okay? 657 00:32:54,370 --> 00:32:56,565 - I think we're entitled to information as parents 658 00:32:56,706 --> 00:32:59,675 on where our children are! - We have a lot of units 659 00:32:59,809 --> 00:33:01,936 out there right now. - I can't get anywhere near it. 660 00:33:02,078 --> 00:33:02,908 I wanna find out 661 00:33:03,045 --> 00:33:04,945 how to get in touch with my daughter. 662 00:33:05,081 --> 00:33:07,811 How do I get information on my daughter? 663 00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:09,474 - I don't have that information right now-- 664 00:33:09,618 --> 00:33:11,745 - Why in the hell not? It's been over an hour! 665 00:33:11,887 --> 00:33:13,252 - My son is Eric Harris, 666 00:33:13,389 --> 00:33:15,414 and I'm afraid that he might be involved 667 00:33:15,558 --> 00:33:17,219 with the shooting at Columbine High School. 668 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,260 - Involved how? 669 00:33:19,395 --> 00:33:22,421 - He's a member of what they're calling the "trench-coat mafia." 670 00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:24,760 - Have you spoken to your son? - No, I haven't. 671 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:27,061 Have they picked up anybody yet? - They're still looking 672 00:33:27,203 --> 00:33:30,695 for suspects. Your son is with who? What gang? 673 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,037 - They call them the "trench-coat mafia". I just heard that term 674 00:33:34,176 --> 00:33:36,076 on TV. - Stay low, because if you try 675 00:33:36,212 --> 00:33:38,237 to leave, I don't want you to get shot. 676 00:33:38,381 --> 00:33:39,780 Stay very low and quiet. 677 00:33:39,915 --> 00:33:41,610 Low and quiet... 678 00:33:45,521 --> 00:33:48,547 - Everybody just stay quiet. 679 00:34:01,537 --> 00:34:04,938 - When the shooting was over, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold 680 00:34:05,074 --> 00:34:09,101 had killed 12 students and one teacher. 681 00:34:09,245 --> 00:34:12,806 Dozens of others were wounded by the over-900 rounds of ammo 682 00:34:12,948 --> 00:34:15,473 that were fired. It is believed that the guns that they used 683 00:34:15,618 --> 00:34:19,054 were all legally purchased at stores and gun shows. 684 00:34:19,188 --> 00:34:21,247 And many of the bullets were bought 685 00:34:21,390 --> 00:34:24,757 at the Littleton K-Mart just down the street. 686 00:34:24,894 --> 00:34:27,294 - Harris's diary also detailed ideas about hijacking 687 00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:30,058 an airplane and crashing it into New York City. 688 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,599 Some may characterize that as fantasy... 689 00:34:32,735 --> 00:34:38,105 - In the end, they turned the guns on themselves. 690 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:40,470 - And then he came into the library, 691 00:34:40,609 --> 00:34:44,101 shot everybody around me, then put a gun to my head 692 00:34:44,246 --> 00:34:47,147 and asked if we all wanted to die and... 693 00:34:47,283 --> 00:34:49,308 - We started hearing shots in the hall 694 00:34:49,452 --> 00:34:51,852 and then they came in and they all told us 695 00:34:51,987 --> 00:34:54,512 to get under the desk and we all got under the desk 696 00:34:54,657 --> 00:34:58,650 and then they started coming in the library and opening fire... 697 00:34:58,794 --> 00:35:01,319 - I just started screaming and crying and telling them 698 00:35:01,464 --> 00:35:04,729 not to shoot me. And so he shot the girl, 699 00:35:04,867 --> 00:35:07,597 he shot her in the head in front of me. 700 00:35:07,736 --> 00:35:12,002 Then he shot the black kid, because he was black. 701 00:35:14,743 --> 00:35:17,007 - I have only five words for you: 702 00:35:17,113 --> 00:35:19,707 From my cold, dead hands. 703 00:35:22,651 --> 00:35:24,312 - Just 10 days after the Columbine killings, 704 00:35:24,453 --> 00:35:25,852 despite the pleas 705 00:35:25,988 --> 00:35:28,513 of a community in mourning, 706 00:35:28,657 --> 00:35:31,820 Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally 707 00:35:31,961 --> 00:35:33,861 for the National Rifle Association. 708 00:35:33,996 --> 00:35:37,329 - Good morning. - Good morning. 709 00:35:37,466 --> 00:35:38,831 Thank you all 710 00:35:38,968 --> 00:35:43,564 for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. 711 00:35:43,706 --> 00:35:47,335 I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. 712 00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:51,845 I have a message from the mayor, 713 00:35:51,981 --> 00:35:53,676 Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. 714 00:35:55,317 --> 00:35:58,081 - No, no, no, no, no. 715 00:35:58,220 --> 00:36:01,246 He sent me this, 716 00:36:01,390 --> 00:36:05,349 and it says: "Don't come here. We don't want you here." 717 00:36:05,494 --> 00:36:09,430 I said to the mayor, "This is our country. 718 00:36:09,565 --> 00:36:13,160 As Americans we're free to travel wherever we want 719 00:36:13,302 --> 00:36:16,271 in our broad land." 720 00:36:24,513 --> 00:36:28,381 Don't come here? We're already here. 721 00:36:35,491 --> 00:36:37,959 - I am here today... 722 00:36:38,093 --> 00:36:41,585 because my son Daniel would want me to be here today. 723 00:36:52,441 --> 00:36:56,070 If my son Daniel was not one of the victims, 724 00:36:56,212 --> 00:36:58,976 he would be here with me today. 725 00:37:03,586 --> 00:37:07,420 Something is wrong in this country... 726 00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:10,081 when a child... 727 00:37:10,226 --> 00:37:14,686 can grab a gun... grab a gun so easily... 728 00:37:14,830 --> 00:37:17,230 and shoot a bullet... 729 00:37:20,336 --> 00:37:25,399 into the middle of a child's face, as my son experienced. 730 00:37:27,009 --> 00:37:28,408 Something is wrong. 731 00:37:28,544 --> 00:37:33,413 But the time has come to come to understand 732 00:37:33,549 --> 00:37:37,883 that a Tech-9 semi-automatic 30-bullet weapon 733 00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:40,614 like that that killed my son, 734 00:37:40,756 --> 00:37:42,883 is not used to kill deer. 735 00:37:43,025 --> 00:37:46,620 It has no useful purpose. 736 00:37:46,762 --> 00:37:50,095 It is time to address this problem. 737 00:37:53,335 --> 00:37:55,895 - We have work to do, hearts to heal, 738 00:37:56,038 --> 00:37:59,132 evil to defeat and a country to unite. 739 00:37:59,275 --> 00:38:01,243 We may have differences, yes, 740 00:38:01,377 --> 00:38:05,404 and we will again suffer tragedy almost beyond description. 741 00:38:05,547 --> 00:38:08,175 But when the sun sets on Denver tonight, 742 00:38:08,317 --> 00:38:13,516 and forever more, let it always set on we the people, 743 00:38:13,656 --> 00:38:18,355 secure in our land of the free and home of the brave. 744 00:38:18,494 --> 00:38:21,861 I, for one, plan to do my part. 745 00:38:21,997 --> 00:38:23,521 Thank you. 746 00:38:26,535 --> 00:38:28,196 - Or like when they had their convention in Colorado, 747 00:38:31,006 --> 00:38:32,337 a week, whatever, the month after Columbine, 748 00:38:32,441 --> 00:38:33,703 that was just stupid. Just don't do that. 749 00:38:33,842 --> 00:38:36,470 Of course you have "the right to," but what are you doing? 750 00:38:36,612 --> 00:38:39,376 Upsetting a whole city full of people, why would you do that? 751 00:38:39,515 --> 00:38:42,712 - This is Matt Stone. He grew up in Littleton 752 00:38:42,851 --> 00:38:45,046 and has fond memories of Columbine. 753 00:38:45,187 --> 00:38:47,553 - Yeah, Columbine, it's just a crappy school 754 00:38:47,690 --> 00:38:49,715 in the middle of a bunch of crappy houses. 755 00:38:49,858 --> 00:38:51,826 - Matt and his friend Trey Parker 756 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,587 found a way to take out 757 00:38:53,729 --> 00:38:56,664 their anger of being different in Littleton 758 00:38:56,799 --> 00:39:02,635 and turn it not into carnage, but into a cartoon. 759 00:39:02,771 --> 00:39:08,038 "Just another Sunday morning In my quiet... 760 00:39:08,177 --> 00:39:10,304 "Mountain town" 761 00:39:12,948 --> 00:39:15,746 "You can see your breath Hanging in the air 762 00:39:15,884 --> 00:39:18,011 "You see homeless people But you just don't care 763 00:39:18,153 --> 00:39:21,520 "It's a sea of smiles In which we'd be glad to drown 764 00:39:21,657 --> 00:39:24,148 "It's Sunday morning In our quiet little 765 00:39:24,293 --> 00:39:26,454 "White-bread redneck mountain town" 766 00:39:26,595 --> 00:39:28,529 - Columbine is a normal high school-- 767 00:39:28,664 --> 00:39:30,256 - Yeah. - ...in a normal suburb-- 768 00:39:30,399 --> 00:39:31,764 - Yeah. - ...you know, basically. 769 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:33,595 - Yeah. Painfully, painfully, painfully normal. 770 00:39:33,736 --> 00:39:36,762 Just absolutely, painfully, horribly average. 771 00:39:36,905 --> 00:39:39,635 Littleton in general is... 772 00:39:39,775 --> 00:39:43,108 I remember being in sixth grade and I... 773 00:39:43,245 --> 00:39:45,611 had to take the math test to get into Honors Math 774 00:39:45,748 --> 00:39:47,613 in the seventh grade. And they're, like, 775 00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:49,945 "Don't screw this up. Because if you screw this up, 776 00:39:50,085 --> 00:39:52,110 you won't get into Honors Math in seventh grade. 777 00:39:52,254 --> 00:39:54,279 And if you don't get in in seventh grade, 778 00:39:54,423 --> 00:39:56,618 you won't in eighth grade, then not in ninth grade. 779 00:39:56,759 --> 00:39:58,954 And 10th and 11th grade and you'll just die poor 780 00:39:59,094 --> 00:40:00,561 and lonely." And that's it, you know? 781 00:40:00,696 --> 00:40:05,633 You believe, in high school - and a lot of it is kids, 782 00:40:05,768 --> 00:40:07,963 but the teachers and counsellors and principals 783 00:40:08,103 --> 00:40:12,563 don't help things. They scare you into conforming 784 00:40:12,708 --> 00:40:15,575 and doing good in school by saying: "If you're a loser now, 785 00:40:15,711 --> 00:40:17,406 you're gonna be a loser forever." 786 00:40:17,546 --> 00:40:19,741 So that with Eric and Dylan, people called them "fag." 787 00:40:19,882 --> 00:40:21,247 They're like, "You know what? 788 00:40:21,383 --> 00:40:23,408 If I'm a fag, now I'm a fag forever." 789 00:40:23,552 --> 00:40:26,043 And you wish someone just could've grabbed them and gone, 790 00:40:26,188 --> 00:40:28,418 "Dude, high school's not the end of... 791 00:40:28,557 --> 00:40:31,117 A year, a year and a half, was it? I don't even know. 792 00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:34,093 You just move out-- - No, no, they were two weeks 793 00:40:34,229 --> 00:40:37,255 away from graduation. - Yeah, you're done. 794 00:40:37,399 --> 00:40:39,765 It's amazing how fast you lose touch with all those people. 795 00:40:39,902 --> 00:40:42,769 They just beat it in your head as early as sixth grade: 796 00:40:42,905 --> 00:40:44,600 "Don't fuck up. 'Cause if you do, 797 00:40:44,740 --> 00:40:46,264 you're gonna die poor and lonely. 798 00:40:46,408 --> 00:40:48,433 You don't want to do that." You're, like, "Fuck, 799 00:40:48,577 --> 00:40:50,602 whatever I am now, I'm that forever." Of course, 800 00:40:50,746 --> 00:40:52,941 it's completely opposite. All the dorks in high school 801 00:40:53,081 --> 00:40:55,447 go on to do great things and all the really cool guys 802 00:40:55,584 --> 00:40:58,610 are all living back in Littleton as insurance agents. 803 00:40:58,754 --> 00:41:01,621 Almost person to person, it's completely that way. 804 00:41:01,757 --> 00:41:03,918 If somebody could've told them that, 805 00:41:04,059 --> 00:41:06,357 maybe they would've have done it, but... 806 00:41:06,495 --> 00:41:08,463 - I guess we'll never know why they did it, 807 00:41:08,597 --> 00:41:10,531 but one thing adults should never forget: 808 00:41:10,666 --> 00:41:13,226 It still sucks being a teenager. 809 00:41:13,368 --> 00:41:15,529 And it really sucks going to school. 810 00:41:15,671 --> 00:41:17,070 - What's your view on high school? 811 00:41:17,206 --> 00:41:18,571 - Uh, I love it. 812 00:41:18,707 --> 00:41:20,675 Columbine Student Video 813 00:41:20,876 --> 00:41:23,401 Uh, I learn, I get picked on by bastards who hate me, 814 00:41:23,545 --> 00:41:26,173 and the principal's a dick. 815 00:41:26,315 --> 00:41:28,442 - All right. What causes school violence? 816 00:41:28,584 --> 00:41:30,575 - Uh... him. 817 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,882 - Him? - Yeah. 818 00:41:34,022 --> 00:41:36,923 - Yes, and after Columbine, it really sucked 819 00:41:37,059 --> 00:41:38,583 being a student in America. 820 00:41:38,727 --> 00:41:40,854 Since last spring's shooting, 821 00:41:40,996 --> 00:41:43,260 at Columbine High, schools nationwide 822 00:41:43,398 --> 00:41:45,366 have extended zero-tolerance policies, 823 00:41:45,501 --> 00:41:48,095 suspending and expelling students for all kinds 824 00:41:48,237 --> 00:41:50,933 of behaviour considered unruly, 825 00:41:51,073 --> 00:41:53,598 or warning signs of violence to come. 826 00:41:53,742 --> 00:41:56,438 This second-grader in Illinois was suspended for 10 days 827 00:41:56,578 --> 00:41:58,273 for bringing a nail clipper to class 828 00:41:58,413 --> 00:42:00,108 "That's a weapon," his school said. 829 00:42:00,249 --> 00:42:02,342 - An elementary school suspended a first-grader 830 00:42:02,484 --> 00:42:04,782 for pointing a chicken strip at a teacher in the cafeteria. 831 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,514 The eight-year-old was fooling around with a friend 832 00:42:07,656 --> 00:42:10,557 at lunch last week when he pointed a breaded-chicken finger 833 00:42:10,692 --> 00:42:12,785 at a teacher and then said: "Pow pow. 834 00:42:12,928 --> 00:42:15,123 - He pointed a folded piece of paper shaped like a gun, 835 00:42:15,264 --> 00:42:17,459 and told his classmates he was going to kill them 836 00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:19,794 during a game of cops and robbers. 837 00:42:19,935 --> 00:42:22,802 - If this isn't a warning sign, then what is it? 838 00:42:22,938 --> 00:42:25,065 - This Virginia high-school student spent a month 839 00:42:25,207 --> 00:42:26,697 out of classes, originally sent home 840 00:42:26,842 --> 00:42:29,538 for dying his hair blue. - A high-school honour student 841 00:42:29,678 --> 00:42:31,737 from Michigan could be expelled later today 842 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,313 in a school-board hearing. 843 00:42:33,448 --> 00:42:35,916 Seventeen-year-old Jeremy Hicks wore a Scottish 844 00:42:36,051 --> 00:42:39,714 bagpiper's outfit to his junior prom that included 845 00:42:39,855 --> 00:42:43,256 a plaid kilt, a feathered hat and a traditional knife 846 00:42:43,392 --> 00:42:45,155 known as a "skein dhu." 847 00:42:45,294 --> 00:42:46,818 - This T-shirt 848 00:42:46,962 --> 00:42:48,429 landed a high-school student in court. 849 00:42:48,564 --> 00:42:50,657 She wanted to start an anarchy club. 850 00:42:50,799 --> 00:42:52,926 - The little time-bombs that are out there ticking, 851 00:42:53,068 --> 00:42:55,935 waiting to go off. And there are many of them in every community. 852 00:42:56,071 --> 00:42:58,437 - Students in at least seven different states 853 00:42:58,574 --> 00:43:00,132 have been suspended or arrested 854 00:43:00,275 --> 00:43:03,676 for talking about or planning plots of their own. 855 00:43:03,812 --> 00:43:05,439 - It's almost like guerrilla warfare. 856 00:43:05,581 --> 00:43:07,549 You don't know from which direction 857 00:43:07,649 --> 00:43:08,980 the enemy will be coming. 858 00:43:11,787 --> 00:43:13,118 Marketing video from Garrett Metal Detectors 859 00:43:13,221 --> 00:43:14,449 - Having a well-conceived and strictly enforced dress code 860 00:43:14,523 --> 00:43:15,922 can dramatically improve the safety of a school, 861 00:43:16,058 --> 00:43:18,117 and can ensure a positive learning environment 862 00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:19,625 for everyone. 863 00:43:19,761 --> 00:43:22,025 As this student's appearance demonstrates, 864 00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:25,224 having a lax policy about dress makes it easy 865 00:43:25,367 --> 00:43:27,198 for a student to conceal a weapon 866 00:43:27,336 --> 00:43:31,102 and makes it difficult to identify intruders on campus. 867 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,901 A dress code can reduce weapons violations, 868 00:43:34,042 --> 00:43:38,502 relieve tensions between gangs, reduce disciplinary infractions 869 00:43:38,647 --> 00:43:41,445 and generally improve the atmosphere of the school. 870 00:43:41,583 --> 00:43:44,814 Our policy requires that students tuck in their shirts, 871 00:43:44,953 --> 00:43:47,717 making the beltline visible at all times. 872 00:43:47,856 --> 00:43:50,086 Our students may not wear baggy pants 873 00:43:50,225 --> 00:43:53,251 or colours or insignias that are commonly associated 874 00:43:53,395 --> 00:43:55,090 with gang activity. 875 00:43:55,230 --> 00:43:58,028 This policy was a collaborative effort. 876 00:43:58,166 --> 00:44:01,624 - Yes, our children were indeed something to fear. 877 00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:07,002 They had turned into little monsters. 878 00:44:07,142 --> 00:44:09,337 But who was to blame? 879 00:44:09,478 --> 00:44:10,911 All the experts had an answer. 880 00:44:11,046 --> 00:44:14,573 - Angry, heavy-metal subculture. 881 00:44:14,716 --> 00:44:17,082 - Where were the parents? - Violent movies. 882 00:44:17,219 --> 00:44:20,484 - "South Park." - Video games. - Television. - Entertainment. 883 00:44:20,622 --> 00:44:23,216 - Satan. - Cartoons. - Films. - Society. - Toy guns. 884 00:44:23,358 --> 00:44:26,259 - Drugs. - Shock-rocker Marilyn Manson. 885 00:44:26,395 --> 00:44:29,330 Marilyn Manson. 886 00:44:29,464 --> 00:44:32,058 - Marilyn Manson has cancelled the last five dates 887 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,567 of his U.S, tour out of respect for those lost in Littleton. 888 00:44:35,704 --> 00:44:38,104 But the singer says artists like himself 889 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,105 are not the ones to blame. 890 00:44:42,177 --> 00:44:43,940 - This is perhaps the sickest group ever promoted 891 00:44:44,046 --> 00:44:46,776 by a mainstream record company. 892 00:44:46,915 --> 00:44:49,008 "I'm not a slave 893 00:44:49,151 --> 00:44:50,675 "to a god 894 00:44:50,819 --> 00:44:53,515 "that doesn't exist" 895 00:44:53,655 --> 00:44:55,418 - After Columbine, it seemed 896 00:44:55,557 --> 00:44:57,991 that the entire focus on why the shootings occurred 897 00:44:58,126 --> 00:44:59,388 was because the killers 898 00:44:59,528 --> 00:45:01,758 listened to Marilyn Manson. 899 00:45:01,897 --> 00:45:03,762 Two years after Columbine, 900 00:45:03,899 --> 00:45:06,094 Manson finally returned to Denver. 901 00:45:06,234 --> 00:45:08,065 - The Oz Fest at Mile High Stadium 902 00:45:08,203 --> 00:45:10,398 brings shock-rocker Marilyn Manson to Denver tomorrow. 903 00:45:10,539 --> 00:45:13,804 - There were protests from the religious right. 904 00:45:13,942 --> 00:45:16,035 But I thought I'd go and talk with him myself. 905 00:45:16,178 --> 00:45:18,578 - When I was a kid growing up, music was the escape. 906 00:45:18,714 --> 00:45:20,579 That's the only thing 907 00:45:20,716 --> 00:45:24,550 that had no judgements. You can put on a record 908 00:45:24,686 --> 00:45:27,985 and it's not gonna yell at you for dressing the way you do. 909 00:45:28,123 --> 00:45:30,318 It's gonna make you feel better about it. 910 00:45:30,459 --> 00:45:33,656 - Some will be so brash to ask if we believe 911 00:45:33,795 --> 00:45:35,990 that all who hear Manson tomorrow night 912 00:45:36,131 --> 00:45:38,361 will go out and commit violent acts. 913 00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,492 The answer is "no." But does everybody 914 00:45:41,636 --> 00:45:44,571 who watches a Lexus ad go and buy a Lexus? 915 00:45:44,706 --> 00:45:46,833 No. But a few do. 916 00:45:46,975 --> 00:45:50,274 - I definitely can see why they would pick me, 917 00:45:50,412 --> 00:45:53,813 because I think it's easy to throw my face on a TV, 918 00:45:53,949 --> 00:45:58,477 because I'm, in the end, sort of a poster boy for fear. 919 00:45:58,620 --> 00:46:01,953 Because I represent what everyone's afraid of, 920 00:46:02,090 --> 00:46:04,354 because I do and say what I want. 921 00:46:04,493 --> 00:46:07,587 - If Marilyn Manson can walk into our town and promote hate, 922 00:46:07,729 --> 00:46:10,596 violence, suicide, death, drug use 923 00:46:10,732 --> 00:46:12,529 and Columbine-like behaviour, 924 00:46:12,667 --> 00:46:15,864 I can say, "Not without a fight, you can't." 925 00:46:16,004 --> 00:46:21,499 - The two by-products of that whole tragedy were, uh... 926 00:46:21,643 --> 00:46:24,111 violence in entertainment and gun control. 927 00:46:24,246 --> 00:46:27,374 And how perfect that that was the two things 928 00:46:27,516 --> 00:46:29,541 that we were gonna talk about with the upcoming election. 929 00:46:29,684 --> 00:46:32,050 And also, then we forgot about Monica Lewinsky 930 00:46:32,187 --> 00:46:34,052 and we forgot about... 931 00:46:34,189 --> 00:46:36,555 The president was shooting bombs overseas, 932 00:46:36,691 --> 00:46:42,561 yet I'm a bad guy because I sing some rock'n'roll songs. 933 00:46:42,697 --> 00:46:45,564 And who's a bigger influence, the president or Marilyn Manson? 934 00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:48,328 I'd like to think me, but I'm gonna go with the president. 935 00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:50,563 - Do you know the day that Columbine happened, 936 00:46:50,705 --> 00:46:53,071 the United States dropped more bombs on Kosovo 937 00:46:53,208 --> 00:46:55,073 than any other time during that war? 938 00:46:55,210 --> 00:46:57,508 - I do know that and I think that's really ironic, 939 00:46:57,646 --> 00:47:01,582 that nobody said, "Well, maybe the president had an influence 940 00:47:01,716 --> 00:47:03,581 on this violent behaviour. 941 00:47:03,718 --> 00:47:05,913 Because that's not the way the media wants to take it 942 00:47:06,054 --> 00:47:08,045 and spin it and turn it into fear. 943 00:47:08,190 --> 00:47:10,055 'Cause then you're watching television, 944 00:47:10,192 --> 00:47:13,025 you're watching the news; you're being pumped full of fear. 945 00:47:13,161 --> 00:47:15,721 And there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder. 946 00:47:15,864 --> 00:47:19,527 You cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate. 947 00:47:19,668 --> 00:47:22,034 If you have bad breath, they're not gonna talk to you. 948 00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:24,866 If you got pimples, the girl's not gonna fuck you. 949 00:47:25,006 --> 00:47:29,409 It's a campaign of fear and consumption. 950 00:47:29,544 --> 00:47:31,535 And that's what I think that's it's all based on, 951 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,342 is the whole idea that: keep everyone afraid, 952 00:47:34,482 --> 00:47:37,883 and they'll consume. And that's really as simple 953 00:47:38,019 --> 00:47:40,249 as it can be boiled down to. - Right. 954 00:47:40,388 --> 00:47:42,549 If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine 955 00:47:42,691 --> 00:47:44,556 and the people in that community, 956 00:47:44,693 --> 00:47:47,059 what would you say to them, if they here right now? 957 00:47:47,195 --> 00:47:49,060 - I wouldn't say a single word to them. 958 00:47:49,197 --> 00:47:51,062 I would listen to what they have to say. 959 00:47:51,199 --> 00:47:53,827 And that's what no one did. 960 00:47:53,969 --> 00:47:56,563 - I'm Nicole Shleif. - And I'm Amanda Lamontagne. 961 00:47:56,705 --> 00:47:58,673 - And you went to Columbine? - Yes. 962 00:47:58,807 --> 00:48:00,900 - And you were with Eric and Dylan? 963 00:48:01,042 --> 00:48:02,907 In their class? - Yeah, 964 00:48:03,044 --> 00:48:05,569 we were in their bowling class. - In their bowling class? 965 00:48:05,714 --> 00:48:07,579 - Yes. - What's bowling class? 966 00:48:07,716 --> 00:48:11,413 - Just an elective you can take for a gym credit. 967 00:48:11,553 --> 00:48:14,044 - Where's the educational value of this, though? 968 00:48:16,658 --> 00:48:18,523 - Um... I guess there isn't really any. 969 00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:20,525 - No, there's not. 970 00:48:20,662 --> 00:48:24,792 - I learned how to bowl a lot better, that's for sure. 971 00:48:24,933 --> 00:48:27,026 - What were Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold like? 972 00:48:27,168 --> 00:48:29,033 - Weird. - Yeah? 973 00:48:29,170 --> 00:48:31,035 - I mean, not very social. 974 00:48:31,172 --> 00:48:33,037 - I didn't really know who they were. 975 00:48:33,174 --> 00:48:36,666 - Not very social, just kinda kept to themselves. 976 00:48:36,811 --> 00:48:39,143 - How good a bowlers were Eric and Dylan? 977 00:48:39,281 --> 00:48:41,613 - When we played them, 978 00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:44,048 all I remember is they were just, like, crazy. 979 00:48:44,185 --> 00:48:46,449 They would just chuck the ball. - Chuck it down there. 980 00:48:46,588 --> 00:48:49,557 - Throw the ball down; didn't really care how they bowled. 981 00:48:49,691 --> 00:48:51,852 - Yeah, they didn't really care about their scores. 982 00:48:51,993 --> 00:48:53,961 Deputy Sheriff Steve Davis - What were the suspects doing the morning of attack? 983 00:48:54,029 --> 00:48:55,690 I told you that I'd heard that they were bowling; 984 00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:57,593 that's the only thing I'm aware of. 985 00:48:57,732 --> 00:49:00,565 - So did Dylan and Eric show up that morning 986 00:49:00,702 --> 00:49:02,761 and bowl two games before moving on 987 00:49:02,904 --> 00:49:04,769 to shoot up the school? 988 00:49:04,906 --> 00:49:07,238 And did they just chuck the balls down the lane? 989 00:49:07,375 --> 00:49:09,240 Did this mean something? 990 00:49:09,377 --> 00:49:12,403 - Um, I guess they went to their favourite class. 991 00:49:14,516 --> 00:49:16,040 - Why wasn't anyone blaming bowling 992 00:49:16,184 --> 00:49:17,344 for warping the minds of Eric and Dylan 993 00:49:17,452 --> 00:49:19,147 to commit their evil deeds? 994 00:49:19,287 --> 00:49:23,656 Wasn't that just as plausible as blaming Marilyn Manson? 995 00:49:23,792 --> 00:49:25,692 After all, 996 00:49:25,827 --> 00:49:27,692 it was apparently the last thing they did 997 00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:30,491 before the massacre. 998 00:49:30,632 --> 00:49:33,362 But wait a minute. There's lots of bowling going on 999 00:49:33,501 --> 00:49:36,993 in other countries. 1000 00:49:37,138 --> 00:49:39,504 And don't they listen to Marilyn Manson in Germany, 1001 00:49:39,641 --> 00:49:41,575 the home of sinister Goth music? 1002 00:49:41,710 --> 00:49:43,837 - Some Gothic festival. "Ah" 1003 00:49:43,979 --> 00:49:47,312 - Don't they watch the same violent movies in France? 1004 00:49:51,286 --> 00:49:54,084 Most of the violent video games are from Japan. 1005 00:49:56,725 --> 00:49:58,022 Many people in America believe 1006 00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:00,593 that it's the break-up of the family unit 1007 00:50:00,729 --> 00:50:02,629 that's caused so many wayward youth to turn to violence. 1008 00:50:02,764 --> 00:50:05,130 - I'll save you the trouble. I'll run away and kill myself! 1009 00:50:05,266 --> 00:50:07,632 How would you like that? You can't keep me here! 1010 00:50:07,769 --> 00:50:09,259 - But statistics show 1011 00:50:09,404 --> 00:50:11,497 that there are more broken homes and divorce 1012 00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:13,334 in Great Britain than in the U.S. 1013 00:50:13,475 --> 00:50:17,172 - It's official: Fergie's marriage has ended. 1014 00:50:17,312 --> 00:50:20,907 - Liberals contend that it's all the poverty we have in America 1015 00:50:21,049 --> 00:50:22,846 that causes all this violence. 1016 00:50:22,984 --> 00:50:25,077 But the unemployment rate in Canada 1017 00:50:25,220 --> 00:50:28,087 is twice what it is here. Of course, most people say 1018 00:50:28,223 --> 00:50:30,987 it's because we Americans have a violent history, 1019 00:50:31,126 --> 00:50:33,356 a violent past. Cowboys and Indians, 1020 00:50:33,495 --> 00:50:35,520 the Wild West, 1021 00:50:35,663 --> 00:50:37,597 a history of conquering and bloodshed. 1022 00:50:37,732 --> 00:50:39,597 Well, if that's all it takes to end up 1023 00:50:39,734 --> 00:50:41,964 with such a violent society 1024 00:50:42,103 --> 00:50:44,003 like we have in America, how do you explain this? 1025 00:50:44,806 --> 00:50:47,206 GERMANS EXTERMINATE 12 MILLION 1026 00:50:49,444 --> 00:50:51,537 JAPANESE OCCUPATION OF CHINA 1027 00:50:55,183 --> 00:50:58,277 FRENCH MASSACRE IN ALGIERS 1028 00:51:01,256 --> 00:51:04,089 BRITISH SLAUGHTER IN INDIA 1029 00:51:05,527 --> 00:51:07,518 Yet in spite of all this, 1030 00:51:07,662 --> 00:51:09,027 how many people are killed by guns each year? 1031 00:51:11,132 --> 00:51:13,225 In Germany: 1032 00:51:14,969 --> 00:51:16,630 In France: 1033 00:51:19,607 --> 00:51:21,905 In Canada: 1034 00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:26,647 In the United Kingdom: 1035 00:51:29,617 --> 00:51:31,642 In Australia: 1036 00:51:34,222 --> 00:51:35,450 In Japan: 1037 00:51:38,259 --> 00:51:40,159 In the United States: 1038 00:51:44,732 --> 00:51:48,498 - But that, to me, brings up an important question: 1039 00:51:48,636 --> 00:51:51,104 Then what is so different about Americans? 1040 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,366 Tom Mauser Father of Columbine victim 1041 00:51:53,575 --> 00:51:54,701 Are we homicidal in nature? 1042 00:51:56,111 --> 00:51:59,012 Because in Europe and Australia, 1043 00:51:59,147 --> 00:52:01,615 most other free-world countries, they don't have this. 1044 00:52:01,749 --> 00:52:05,116 They don't have people who snap and go on murderous rampages. 1045 00:52:05,253 --> 00:52:07,721 - Well, no, they're just like us. They have the occasional person 1046 00:52:07,856 --> 00:52:10,120 that snaps and kills a lot of people. 1047 00:52:10,258 --> 00:52:13,091 How about a British soccer riot? Those aren't Quakers there, 1048 00:52:13,228 --> 00:52:15,219 - Every time that I bring up comparisons 1049 00:52:15,363 --> 00:52:17,228 with other free-world countries, what I hear is: 1050 00:52:17,365 --> 00:52:19,390 "Oh, our culture is so different. We're so different." 1051 00:52:19,534 --> 00:52:21,559 And as you said, they have violent video games, 1052 00:52:21,703 --> 00:52:24,570 they have violent movies, they have alienated youth, 1053 00:52:24,706 --> 00:52:27,573 they - like us - don't have prayer in schools. 1054 00:52:27,709 --> 00:52:31,941 What is so radically different? What is it about us? 1055 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,071 - What is it? - What is it? 1056 00:52:34,449 --> 00:52:36,076 - What is it? - What is it? 1057 00:52:36,217 --> 00:52:38,947 I don't know. 1058 00:52:41,389 --> 00:52:44,119 - Now, it's time for... 1059 00:52:44,225 --> 00:52:46,386 Hi, boys and girls. Ready to get started? 1060 00:52:46,528 --> 00:52:48,462 Once upon a time, there were these people in Europe 1061 00:52:48,596 --> 00:52:52,464 called pilgrims and they were afraid of being persecuted. 1062 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,228 So they all got in a boat and sailed to the New World 1063 00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:58,032 where they wouldn't have to be scared ever again. 1064 00:52:58,173 --> 00:53:00,937 - Oh, I'm so relaxed. - I feel so much safer. 1065 00:53:01,075 --> 00:53:04,067 - But as soon as they arrived, they were greeted by savages. 1066 00:53:04,212 --> 00:53:06,407 They got scared all over again. - Injuns! 1067 00:53:06,548 --> 00:53:08,175 - So they killed them all. Now, you'd think 1068 00:53:08,316 --> 00:53:10,876 wiping out a race of people would calm them down, but no. 1069 00:53:11,019 --> 00:53:13,249 Instead, they started getting frightened of each other. 1070 00:53:13,388 --> 00:53:15,549 - Witch! - So they burned witches. 1071 00:53:15,690 --> 00:53:17,055 In 1775, 1072 00:53:17,192 --> 00:53:19,956 they started killing the British, so they could be free. 1073 00:53:20,094 --> 00:53:22,858 And it worked. But they still didn't feel safe. 1074 00:53:22,997 --> 00:53:26,023 So they passed a 2nd amendment, which said every white man 1075 00:53:26,167 --> 00:53:28,328 could keep his gun. - I loves my gun, loves my gun. 1076 00:53:28,469 --> 00:53:31,267 - This brings us to the genius idea of slavery. 1077 00:53:31,406 --> 00:53:33,340 You see, boys and girls, the white people back then 1078 00:53:33,474 --> 00:53:35,806 were also afraid of doing any work. So they went to Africa, 1079 00:53:35,944 --> 00:53:38,105 kidnapped thousands of black people, brought them to America, 1080 00:53:38,246 --> 00:53:40,373 and forced them to work very hard for no money. 1081 00:53:40,515 --> 00:53:42,380 And I don't mean no money like: 1082 00:53:42,517 --> 00:53:44,280 "I work at Wal-Mart and make no money." 1083 00:53:44,419 --> 00:53:46,580 I mean zero dollars. Nothing, nada, zip. 1084 00:53:46,721 --> 00:53:48,586 Doing it that way made the USA 1085 00:53:48,723 --> 00:53:50,418 the richest country in the world. 1086 00:53:50,558 --> 00:53:52,583 So did having all that money and free help 1087 00:53:52,727 --> 00:53:55,594 calm the white people down? No way. They got even more afraid. 1088 00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:57,960 That's because after 200 years of slavery, 1089 00:53:58,099 --> 00:54:00,499 the black people now outnumbered the white people in many parts 1090 00:54:00,635 --> 00:54:02,865 of the South. Well, you can pretty much what came next. 1091 00:54:03,004 --> 00:54:04,904 The slaves started rebelling. There were uprisings 1092 00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:06,734 and old masters' heads got chopped off 1093 00:54:06,874 --> 00:54:09,172 and when white people heard of this, they were freaking out. 1094 00:54:09,310 --> 00:54:11,107 They going: - I want to live! 1095 00:54:11,246 --> 00:54:13,009 Don't kill me, big black man. 1096 00:54:13,147 --> 00:54:16,082 - Well, just in the nick of time came Samuel Colt, who, 1097 00:54:16,217 --> 00:54:19,015 in 1836, invented the first weapon ever that could be fired 1098 00:54:19,153 --> 00:54:20,916 over and over without having to reload. 1099 00:54:21,055 --> 00:54:23,683 And all the settlers were, like: - Yee-hah! 1100 00:54:23,825 --> 00:54:26,953 - But it was too late. The North soon won the Civil War 1101 00:54:27,095 --> 00:54:31,623 and the slaves were free to go chop the old masters' heads off. 1102 00:54:31,766 --> 00:54:33,996 Then everybody was, like: - Oh, no, we're gonna die. 1103 00:54:34,135 --> 00:54:36,501 - But the freed slaves took no revenge. 1104 00:54:36,638 --> 00:54:39,072 They just wanted to live in peace. 1105 00:54:39,207 --> 00:54:41,801 But you couldn't convince the white people of this. 1106 00:54:41,943 --> 00:54:44,935 So they formed the Ku Klux Klan and, in 1871, 1107 00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:48,048 the same year the Klan became an illegal terrorist organization, 1108 00:54:48,182 --> 00:54:51,879 another group was founded: the National Rifle Association. 1109 00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:53,988 Soon, politicians passed one of the first gun laws, 1110 00:54:54,122 --> 00:54:57,250 making it illegal for any black person to own one. 1111 00:54:57,392 --> 00:55:00,623 It was a great year for America. he KKK and the NRA. 1112 00:55:00,762 --> 00:55:02,627 Of course, they had nothing to do with each other; 1113 00:55:02,764 --> 00:55:05,392 it was a coincidence. One group legally promoted responsible 1114 00:55:05,533 --> 00:55:08,400 gun ownership; the other shot and lynched black people. 1115 00:55:08,536 --> 00:55:10,731 That's the way it was till 1955, when a black woman 1116 00:55:10,872 --> 00:55:13,773 broke the law by refusing to move to the back of the bus. 1117 00:55:13,908 --> 00:55:15,170 White people just couldn't believe it. 1118 00:55:15,310 --> 00:55:18,473 - Huh? Why won't she move? - What's going on? 1119 00:55:18,613 --> 00:55:21,548 - Man, all hell broke loose. Black people everywhere demanded 1120 00:55:21,683 --> 00:55:25,414 their rights. White people had a major, freaky-feel meltdown 1121 00:55:25,553 --> 00:55:28,044 and they were all, like: - Run away! Run away! 1122 00:55:28,189 --> 00:55:30,214 - And they did. They all ran fleeing to the suburbs, 1123 00:55:30,358 --> 00:55:32,826 where it was all white and safe and clean. And they went out 1124 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,825 and bought a quarter-of-a-billion guns. 1125 00:55:34,962 --> 00:55:36,896 And put locks on their doors, alarms in their houses, 1126 00:55:37,031 --> 00:55:39,226 and gates around the neighbourhoods. 1127 00:55:39,367 --> 00:55:43,167 And finally, they were all safe and secure and snug as a bug. 1128 00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:52,336 And everyone lived happily ever after. 1129 00:56:03,591 --> 00:56:05,252 - Because if you turn on the evening news, 1130 00:56:05,393 --> 00:56:09,124 America still seems like a pretty scary place. 1131 00:56:09,263 --> 00:56:12,426 - Who is he? Is he dangerous? What's he up to? 1132 00:56:15,370 --> 00:56:16,962 - What are you trying to pull, man? 1133 00:56:17,105 --> 00:56:18,504 - Remember all the Y2Kscares? 1134 00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:21,972 Weren't we told that our very society was about to collapse 1135 00:56:22,110 --> 00:56:23,600 because somebody forgot 1136 00:56:23,745 --> 00:56:25,679 to type in a couple of digits on the computer? 1137 00:56:25,813 --> 00:56:28,111 - There's gonna be mass chaos and confusion. 1138 00:56:28,249 --> 00:56:29,614 - Tonight, the countdown begins. 1139 00:56:29,751 --> 00:56:31,616 All day, store director Rick Smith 1140 00:56:31,753 --> 00:56:35,985 watched consumers get Y2K ready. - Batteries sell extremely well. 1141 00:56:36,124 --> 00:56:38,888 The lamp oil, generators. 1142 00:56:39,026 --> 00:56:41,119 - After sending the country into a panic, 1143 00:56:41,262 --> 00:56:43,457 the clock struck midnight... 1144 00:56:43,598 --> 00:56:46,260 And nothing happened. 1145 00:56:46,401 --> 00:56:48,392 Or how about those killer bees 1146 00:56:48,536 --> 00:56:50,561 that were going to attack America? 1147 00:56:50,705 --> 00:56:53,230 - We're almost certain they'll arrive this year. 1148 00:56:53,374 --> 00:56:55,968 - Shmidt expects the Africanized bees to reach Texas this year, 1149 00:56:56,110 --> 00:56:58,340 cross into Arizona in about two to three years. 1150 00:56:58,479 --> 00:57:01,812 He's concerned because the killer bee is overly aggressive. 1151 00:57:01,949 --> 00:57:04,417 - They will follow you for half a mile. 1152 00:57:04,552 --> 00:57:07,077 - The bees never came. 1153 00:57:07,221 --> 00:57:09,689 Remember the first time you heard 1154 00:57:09,824 --> 00:57:12,588 that someone had hidden a razor blade in an apple at Halloween? 1155 00:57:12,727 --> 00:57:14,251 Before long, 1156 00:57:14,395 --> 00:57:16,659 kids were not permitted to go out in the dark on Halloween 1157 00:57:16,798 --> 00:57:19,164 and go trick-or-treating at strangers' homes. 1158 00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:21,359 - Many people say they won't give out candy treats on Halloween. 1159 00:57:21,502 --> 00:57:24,164 It's too dangerous and they're too scared. 1160 00:57:24,305 --> 00:57:25,772 - Well, guess what? 1161 00:57:25,907 --> 00:57:27,670 There never was any razor blade in the apple. 1162 00:57:27,809 --> 00:57:29,902 In fact, only two kids 1163 00:57:30,044 --> 00:57:33,707 in the past 40 years have been killed by Halloween candy. 1164 00:57:33,848 --> 00:57:36,078 And both of them were poisoned on purpose by relatives. 1165 00:57:36,217 --> 00:57:37,775 - Bye. 1166 00:57:37,919 --> 00:57:40,353 It was like a scene from a horror movie. 1167 00:57:40,488 --> 00:57:43,787 This man was mowing his lawn when a fox darted out 1168 00:57:43,925 --> 00:57:46,291 of the woods and attacked his riding-mower. 1169 00:57:46,427 --> 00:57:48,691 - A warning about a popular weight-loss supplement. 1170 00:57:48,830 --> 00:57:50,798 What you don't know may kill you. 1171 00:57:50,932 --> 00:57:53,059 - You ride them every day, but in an instant, 1172 00:57:53,201 --> 00:57:56,295 an escalator can mangle you or a loved one. 1173 00:57:56,437 --> 00:57:59,804 - We reveal why you may be riding on stairway to danger. 1174 00:57:59,941 --> 00:58:00,873 - You might want to take some extra precautions: 1175 00:58:01,008 --> 00:58:03,533 keep a low profile, don't go around dancing 1176 00:58:03,678 --> 00:58:06,238 with a bunch of Americans in the streets. 1177 00:58:06,380 --> 00:58:09,178 Make sure that you don't draw a lot of attention to yourself 1178 00:58:09,317 --> 00:58:10,648 and the fact that you're American. 1179 00:58:10,785 --> 00:58:13,253 - Nation's top doctor says one in five Americans 1180 00:58:13,387 --> 00:58:15,218 suffers some form of mental disorder. 1181 00:58:15,356 --> 00:58:17,847 The surgeon general David Satcher pleads with people 1182 00:58:17,992 --> 00:58:19,721 to seek help now. 1183 00:58:19,861 --> 00:58:23,490 - The media, the corporations, the politicians, 1184 00:58:23,631 --> 00:58:27,692 have all done such a good job of scaring the American public, 1185 00:58:27,835 --> 00:58:30,531 it's come to the point where they don't need to give 1186 00:58:30,671 --> 00:58:32,662 any reason at all. 1187 00:58:32,807 --> 00:58:35,503 - Today, the Justice Department did issue a... 1188 00:58:35,643 --> 00:58:38,077 a blanket alert. 1189 00:58:40,681 --> 00:58:43,775 It was in recognition of a general threat we received. 1190 00:58:43,918 --> 00:58:47,046 Uh, this is not the first time 1191 00:58:47,188 --> 00:58:49,452 the Justice Department have acted like this. 1192 00:58:49,590 --> 00:58:51,990 I hope it's the last. 1193 00:58:52,126 --> 00:58:56,028 But given the attitude of the evildoers, it may not be. 1194 00:59:02,603 --> 00:59:04,503 - I just love these boulevards down here, though. 1195 00:59:04,605 --> 00:59:06,197 You don't get this in most of L.A. 1196 00:59:06,374 --> 00:59:07,671 South Central Los Angeles 1197 00:59:07,875 --> 00:59:09,740 - How come whenever I'm out here, though, 1198 00:59:09,810 --> 00:59:12,074 I turn on the 11-o'clock news and I hear, you know: 1199 00:59:12,213 --> 00:59:14,579 "Tonight in South Central, drive-by shooting." 1200 00:59:14,715 --> 00:59:16,580 Or: "Tonight in South Central..." 1201 00:59:16,817 --> 00:59:19,183 Prof. Barry Glassner Author, "The Culture of Fear" 1202 00:59:19,387 --> 00:59:21,582 ...this, that or whatever. I mean, they're not making that up, are they? 1203 00:59:21,722 --> 00:59:24,486 - No, they're not making it up, but they're choosing 1204 00:59:24,625 --> 00:59:27,890 what they're covering. If you turn on the TV, on the news, 1205 00:59:28,029 --> 00:59:30,395 what are you gonna hear about? 1206 00:59:30,531 --> 00:59:34,467 Dangerous black guys, right? Unnamed black guy who, you know, 1207 00:59:34,602 --> 00:59:37,662 accused of some crime or... - Right. 1208 00:59:37,805 --> 00:59:40,603 - You're gonna see pictures of black guys doing bad things, 1209 00:59:40,741 --> 00:59:43,107 and hearing stories about black guys doing bad things. 1210 00:59:43,244 --> 00:59:45,109 And we've heard this our whole lives. 1211 00:59:45,246 --> 00:59:47,476 - Now, the suspect is a black male in his twenties. 1212 00:59:47,615 --> 00:59:49,606 We are told he has a large afro, sideburns, 1213 00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:51,877 he was wearing a silver chain at the time. 1214 00:59:52,019 --> 00:59:54,112 - Police say the suspect is a black man. 1215 00:59:54,255 --> 00:59:58,624 Six foot one, 160 to 180 pounds, about 35 years in age. 1216 00:59:58,759 --> 01:00:01,421 - Suspect is a black male, age 16 to 18. 1217 01:00:01,562 --> 01:00:03,530 - The suspect is African-American. 1218 01:00:03,664 --> 01:00:04,961 Police believe-- - Police say-- 1219 01:00:05,099 --> 01:00:07,465 - The black man-- - Suspect-- 1220 01:00:07,602 --> 01:00:09,729 - The suspect is a black male - A black man. 1221 01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:12,100 A black... black... black... 1222 01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:13,365 - A black man. 1223 01:00:13,507 --> 01:00:15,998 - Susan Smith drowns her two children. 1224 01:00:16,143 --> 01:00:18,577 She tells people a black guy... - Correct. 1225 01:00:18,713 --> 01:00:21,841 - Stole the car and stole the kids. 1226 01:00:21,983 --> 01:00:24,508 And everyone, at first, bought it. 1227 01:00:24,652 --> 01:00:27,644 - Some guy jumped into her car, with her two kids in it. 1228 01:00:27,788 --> 01:00:29,881 Then he took off. That's a black guy, she says. 1229 01:00:30,024 --> 01:00:32,458 - Black male? - Yes, Ma'am. 1230 01:00:32,593 --> 01:00:35,357 - And I told them I loved them. I hollered I loved them 1231 01:00:35,496 --> 01:00:37,623 And it's just a tragedy. 1232 01:00:37,765 --> 01:00:41,633 - The anonymous urban - which means usually black - 1233 01:00:41,769 --> 01:00:43,600 male, comes by and does this. 1234 01:00:43,738 --> 01:00:45,865 It's the excuse for all kinds of things. 1235 01:00:46,007 --> 01:00:47,565 - Charles Stewart, a lawyer in Boston... 1236 01:00:47,708 --> 01:00:49,676 - Right, exactly. - ...kills his pregnant wife, 1237 01:00:49,810 --> 01:00:52,142 says a black guy did it; everybody buys it. 1238 01:00:52,279 --> 01:00:55,305 - The suspect described as a black male about six feet tall. 1239 01:00:55,449 --> 01:00:57,679 Chuck and Carol Stewart were robbed at gunpoint 1240 01:00:57,818 --> 01:00:59,683 as they left a Lamaze class. 1241 01:00:59,820 --> 01:01:01,811 It seemed the ultimate urban nightmare. 1242 01:01:01,956 --> 01:01:04,220 - You know, the thing I love about this country of mine, 1243 01:01:04,358 --> 01:01:06,849 is that whether you're a psychotic killer 1244 01:01:06,994 --> 01:01:09,485 or running for president of the United States, 1245 01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:12,064 the one thing you can always count on 1246 01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:15,327 is white America's fear of the black man. 1247 01:01:15,469 --> 01:01:18,336 - We've heard the stories on the news and in the papers 1248 01:01:18,472 --> 01:01:20,337 and they have killed people. 1249 01:01:20,474 --> 01:01:22,169 Killer bees, also known 1250 01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:23,776 as "Africanized" bees. 1251 01:01:23,911 --> 01:01:26,175 - I'm scared. I'm really worried. 1252 01:01:26,313 --> 01:01:29,510 - Rose Shipley never expected a nest of Africanized killer bees 1253 01:01:29,650 --> 01:01:31,845 to shack up across the street from her. 1254 01:01:31,986 --> 01:01:35,012 - But I'm terribly allergic to them and so are my grandkids. 1255 01:01:35,156 --> 01:01:36,714 - They're originally from southern and eastern Africa. 1256 01:01:36,857 --> 01:01:40,554 Dr. Warrick Care brought some to Brazil in 1956 1257 01:01:40,695 --> 01:01:42,686 and tried to mate them 1258 01:01:42,830 --> 01:01:45,594 with the European bee, the kind that we're used to. 1259 01:01:45,733 --> 01:01:49,134 But they got loose and moved to the southern United States. 1260 01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:50,737 - The main difference between a traditional honey bee 1261 01:01:50,871 --> 01:01:53,931 and an Africanized bee is the bee's aggressiveness. 1262 01:01:54,075 --> 01:01:57,238 If I was to do this to an Africanized bee's hive, 1263 01:01:57,378 --> 01:02:00,541 I could have several hundred stings in a matter of minutes. 1264 01:02:00,681 --> 01:02:02,979 - Danny Self raises the kinder, gentler European bees, 1265 01:02:03,117 --> 01:02:04,607 and he's done the research. 1266 01:02:04,752 --> 01:02:06,447 - The only way that you can tell 1267 01:02:06,587 --> 01:02:09,317 the two of them, is doing measurements on the body parts. 1268 01:02:09,457 --> 01:02:12,187 - Quite frankly, the black community has become 1269 01:02:12,326 --> 01:02:14,658 entertainment for the rest of the community. 1270 01:02:14,729 --> 01:02:16,162 - Meaning what? 1271 01:02:16,363 --> 01:02:17,625 Arthur Busch County Prosecutor - Flint, Michigan 1272 01:02:17,698 --> 01:02:19,563 - The entertainment being that the crime of the day - 1273 01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:21,565 you know, "If it bleeds, it leads" - 1274 01:02:21,702 --> 01:02:25,570 gets to be the front story and then that becomes the perception 1275 01:02:25,706 --> 01:02:29,073 and the image of an entire people. 1276 01:02:29,210 --> 01:02:32,077 Which couldn't be further from the truth, in my opinion. 1277 01:02:32,213 --> 01:02:35,080 In fact, you'll find, I think, 1278 01:02:35,216 --> 01:02:38,310 most African-Americans are quite adverse to gun possession. 1279 01:02:40,387 --> 01:02:42,150 In suburbia, I think, 1280 01:02:42,323 --> 01:02:44,154 there's some notion that there's going to be an invading horde, 1281 01:02:44,291 --> 01:02:48,318 come from either the city or from someplace unknown, 1282 01:02:48,462 --> 01:02:51,761 to savage their suburban community. 1283 01:02:51,899 --> 01:02:57,667 To me, not only is it bizarre, but it's totally, uh... 1284 01:02:57,805 --> 01:03:00,273 unfounded. 1285 01:03:00,407 --> 01:03:02,034 And these pistols, curiously enough, 1286 01:03:02,176 --> 01:03:05,612 weren't being taken off kids in the city of Flint, 1287 01:03:05,746 --> 01:03:08,613 but were being taken off of kids out in the out-county area, 1288 01:03:08,749 --> 01:03:12,549 in the suburban communities. And-- 1289 01:03:12,686 --> 01:03:14,551 - I didn't think that's what you were gonna say. 1290 01:03:14,688 --> 01:03:17,555 I thought you were gonna say that it's all these black kids 1291 01:03:17,691 --> 01:03:19,556 in the inner-city schools that had these guns. 1292 01:03:19,693 --> 01:03:22,059 - No, that's... 1293 01:03:22,196 --> 01:03:27,065 We've never really had many problems with guns in the city. 1294 01:03:27,201 --> 01:03:29,567 Not to say that we haven't; we've had some. 1295 01:03:29,703 --> 01:03:31,568 But that's never been the biggest problem. 1296 01:03:31,705 --> 01:03:34,071 The biggest problem has been the gun possession 1297 01:03:34,208 --> 01:03:37,700 by these adolescents in suburbia. 1298 01:03:37,845 --> 01:03:40,211 - How'd you get a gun? 1299 01:03:40,347 --> 01:03:43,077 - I stole mine. I stole it from a friend of mine. 1300 01:03:43,217 --> 01:03:44,912 His dad owns a bunch of guns. 1301 01:03:45,052 --> 01:03:46,917 - What we're you doing with the stolen guns? 1302 01:03:47,054 --> 01:03:48,919 - We went down to Detroit and started selling them. 1303 01:03:49,056 --> 01:03:53,049 'Cause I can get, like, a buck fifty a pop for a 9-millimetre. 1304 01:03:53,194 --> 01:03:56,061 - Oh, really. Who were you trying to sell them to? 1305 01:03:56,197 --> 01:03:59,223 - Anybody that would really want 'em. Gangs and stuff like that. 1306 01:03:59,366 --> 01:04:02,529 - Gangs in the city of Detroit? - Yeah. 1307 01:04:02,670 --> 01:04:04,433 - Black? - Uh, predominantly. Yeah. 1308 01:04:04,572 --> 01:04:06,437 - Yeah. So now you're out now, you're okay. 1309 01:04:06,574 --> 01:04:08,439 - Yeah, I'm free now. I'm completely clear. 1310 01:04:08,576 --> 01:04:10,942 - You can keep selling guns. - I can't keep selling guns. 1311 01:04:11,078 --> 01:04:12,875 It's getting too risky. Everybody knows me up here. 1312 01:04:13,013 --> 01:04:15,880 People want guns, drugs or alcohol, they come to my house 1313 01:04:16,016 --> 01:04:17,540 and that's just too much. 1314 01:04:17,685 --> 01:04:19,516 - Yeah, too much hassle. - Yeah. 1315 01:04:19,653 --> 01:04:25,717 - My favourite statistic in all the research I did discovered 1316 01:04:25,860 --> 01:04:29,956 that the murder rate had gone down by 20%. The coverage - 1317 01:04:30,097 --> 01:04:33,555 that is, how many murders are on the evening news - 1318 01:04:33,701 --> 01:04:35,896 it went up by 600%. 1319 01:04:36,036 --> 01:04:40,564 - The American people are conditioned by network TV, 1320 01:04:40,708 --> 01:04:42,573 by local news, 1321 01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:44,575 to believe that their communities are 1322 01:04:44,712 --> 01:04:47,579 much more dangerous than they actually are. 1323 01:04:47,715 --> 01:04:49,580 For example, here, in this community, 1324 01:04:49,717 --> 01:04:53,585 crime has decreased every year for the past eight years. 1325 01:04:53,721 --> 01:04:55,882 Yet, gun ownership, particularly handgun ownership, 1326 01:04:56,023 --> 01:04:57,888 is on the increase. 1327 01:04:58,025 --> 01:05:00,585 - Crime rates have been dropping, dropping, dropping. 1328 01:05:00,728 --> 01:05:04,095 Fear of crime has been going up, up, up. 1329 01:05:04,231 --> 01:05:06,597 How can that be possible? It doesn't make any sense. 1330 01:05:06,734 --> 01:05:10,101 But it makes perfect sense when you see what we're hearing 1331 01:05:10,237 --> 01:05:13,138 from politicians and seeing in the news media. 1332 01:05:13,274 --> 01:05:15,299 - So we're, uh, we're right here 1333 01:05:15,442 --> 01:05:17,933 on the corner of Florence and Normandie. 1334 01:05:18,078 --> 01:05:19,943 It's kind of Ground Zero for the L.A. riots. 1335 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:21,240 - Right. 1336 01:05:21,382 --> 01:05:24,408 - You know, if a couple of white guys 1337 01:05:24,551 --> 01:05:26,644 would go down and walk around South Central, 1338 01:05:26,787 --> 01:05:27,685 they're gonna get killed. 1339 01:05:27,821 --> 01:05:30,016 Which I can tell you is a common perception. 1340 01:05:30,157 --> 01:05:32,557 The odds that something's going to happen to us 1341 01:05:32,693 --> 01:05:34,558 are really, really slight. 1342 01:05:34,695 --> 01:05:36,560 Minuscule. - Right. Okay. 1343 01:05:36,697 --> 01:05:38,562 - But you know, if you look up there, 1344 01:05:38,699 --> 01:05:41,566 you get a different symbol of the Hollywood sign. 1345 01:05:41,702 --> 01:05:43,567 It means something very different 1346 01:05:43,704 --> 01:05:45,569 than the corner of Florence and Normandie. 1347 01:05:45,706 --> 01:05:47,571 For most Americans and most of the world, 1348 01:05:47,708 --> 01:05:50,575 it means glamour and Hollywood, except that we can't see it. 1349 01:05:50,711 --> 01:05:52,576 - I can't see the Hollywood sign. Where is it? 1350 01:05:52,713 --> 01:05:55,079 - Right. You can't see it because of something that's probably... 1351 01:05:55,215 --> 01:05:57,080 much more dangerous for us right now, 1352 01:05:57,217 --> 01:05:59,082 which is the stuff we're breathing. 1353 01:05:59,219 --> 01:06:01,084 - The pollution that's blocking the Hollywood sign, 1354 01:06:01,221 --> 01:06:02,779 we're breathing this. 1355 01:06:02,923 --> 01:06:05,585 That's far more dangerous than all the other stuff the media's 1356 01:06:05,726 --> 01:06:07,557 telling us to be afraid of. - Right. 1357 01:06:07,695 --> 01:06:10,425 - As we left the corner of Florence and Normandie, 1358 01:06:10,564 --> 01:06:12,361 I noticed that a number of helicopters 1359 01:06:12,499 --> 01:06:14,694 had appeared in the sky. 1360 01:06:14,835 --> 01:06:16,632 Within seconds, the news media 1361 01:06:16,770 --> 01:06:18,635 started to arrive. - So what's the story here? 1362 01:06:18,772 --> 01:06:21,138 - I'm waiting. I thought you would know. 1363 01:06:21,275 --> 01:06:23,140 - No, I don't know anything. 1364 01:06:23,277 --> 01:06:26,041 - The Sergeant just told me there's a guy with a gun. 1365 01:06:26,180 --> 01:06:28,045 But they're not sure. That's all they told me. 1366 01:06:28,182 --> 01:06:30,309 Since there's no action, I'm not getting my camera down. 1367 01:06:30,451 --> 01:06:32,817 - I just happened to see the chopper, going to another story. 1368 01:06:32,953 --> 01:06:35,319 - What story are you going to? - It's a near-drowning. 1369 01:06:35,456 --> 01:06:36,980 - It's a drowning? - A near-drowning. 1370 01:06:37,124 --> 01:06:38,989 - How about a story about how you can't see 1371 01:06:39,126 --> 01:06:41,060 the Hollywood Hills because of the pollution? 1372 01:06:41,195 --> 01:06:44,062 Could you maybe do a story on that tonight? 1373 01:06:44,198 --> 01:06:47,167 - Pollution, that's rather good. I find that good. 1374 01:06:47,301 --> 01:06:49,667 You can't see it. You can't see anything around here. 1375 01:06:49,803 --> 01:06:52,670 - If you have to choose between a guy with a gun 1376 01:06:52,806 --> 01:06:55,570 and a near-drowning of a baby - you could only be one place-- 1377 01:06:55,709 --> 01:06:57,472 - I go with the gun. - You go with the gun, always. 1378 01:06:59,747 --> 01:07:01,578 Is it all over, here? It's all over? All over? 1379 01:07:01,715 --> 01:07:03,580 - Not yet, not yet. - Looks like it. 1380 01:07:03,717 --> 01:07:06,083 - Just wait for these sergeants down here to come down, 1381 01:07:06,220 --> 01:07:08,085 'cause they got all the details. 1382 01:07:08,222 --> 01:07:10,087 - Okay. Hey, I was just wondering - 1383 01:07:10,224 --> 01:07:13,523 I just got here to L.A. today - I can't see the Hollywood sign, 1384 01:07:13,660 --> 01:07:15,525 down on the hills there, down Normandie. 1385 01:07:15,662 --> 01:07:17,527 You can't see the sign 'cause of the pollution. 1386 01:07:17,664 --> 01:07:19,529 - Right. - Is there anybody you can arrest 1387 01:07:19,666 --> 01:07:22,032 for polluting up the air? - Absolutely not. 1388 01:07:22,169 --> 01:07:24,034 - Nobody? - No. 1389 01:07:24,171 --> 01:07:25,570 - Why is that? 1390 01:07:27,508 --> 01:07:29,408 Why is that, Sergeant? 1391 01:07:35,883 --> 01:07:37,407 - He's fighting! 1392 01:07:37,551 --> 01:07:39,416 - For over a decade, 1393 01:07:39,553 --> 01:07:42,647 there has been one show on American television 1394 01:07:42,790 --> 01:07:45,224 that has consistently brought black and white people together 1395 01:07:45,359 --> 01:07:47,554 in an effort to reduce our fears 1396 01:07:47,694 --> 01:07:50,561 and celebrate our diversity. 1397 01:07:50,697 --> 01:07:52,722 That show is Cops. 1398 01:07:56,103 --> 01:07:58,333 I went to see a former producer of "Cops" 1399 01:07:58,472 --> 01:07:59,803 and executive producer 1400 01:07:59,940 --> 01:08:01,771 of World's Wildest Police Videos: 1401 01:08:01,909 --> 01:08:03,570 Mr. Dick Herland. 1402 01:08:03,710 --> 01:08:05,575 - Look "liberal" up in the dictionary 1403 01:08:05,712 --> 01:08:07,577 and I think my picture's in there somewhere, 1404 01:08:07,714 --> 01:08:12,515 - So then, you know, why not be compelled to do, you know, 1405 01:08:12,653 --> 01:08:17,522 a show that focuses on, you know, what's causing the crime, 1406 01:08:17,658 --> 01:08:20,024 as opposed to just chasing the criminals down? 1407 01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,526 - Because I think it's harder to do that show. 1408 01:08:22,663 --> 01:08:24,597 I don't know what that show would be. 1409 01:08:24,731 --> 01:08:26,528 Anger does well, hate does well, violence does well. 1410 01:08:26,667 --> 01:08:29,033 Tolerance and understanding and trying to learn to be 1411 01:08:29,169 --> 01:08:32,104 a little different than you were last year does less well. 1412 01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:34,104 - Does less well in the ratings. - Oh yeah. 1413 01:08:34,241 --> 01:08:37,039 - Maybe because we, in the television business, 1414 01:08:37,177 --> 01:08:41,045 because we tend to demonize black and Hispanic people, 1415 01:08:41,181 --> 01:08:43,046 then those watching it at home are going: 1416 01:08:43,183 --> 01:08:45,048 "I don't want to help those people. 1417 01:08:45,185 --> 01:08:47,050 I'm not going to do anything to help them. 1418 01:08:47,187 --> 01:08:49,553 Because I hate them now, because they may hurt me." 1419 01:08:49,690 --> 01:08:52,557 You know what I'm saying? - I know what you're saying, 1420 01:08:52,693 --> 01:08:55,059 I'm not sure that's what we're doing. 1421 01:08:55,195 --> 01:08:57,561 I'm not sure we're demonizing 1422 01:08:57,698 --> 01:09:02,067 black and Hispanic people, uh... particularly. 1423 01:09:02,202 --> 01:09:04,568 I don't think we show black and Hispanic people 1424 01:09:04,705 --> 01:09:08,072 as being criminals. 1425 01:09:08,208 --> 01:09:10,472 I'd like to say not more often, 1426 01:09:10,611 --> 01:09:12,579 but probably they are more often. 1427 01:09:12,713 --> 01:09:16,149 But I certainly don't think... We're certainly not trying 1428 01:09:16,283 --> 01:09:18,148 to demonize black and Hispanic people. 1429 01:09:18,285 --> 01:09:21,083 - We show them on the news, we show them on TV, 1430 01:09:21,221 --> 01:09:23,587 as pretty scary people. 1431 01:09:23,724 --> 01:09:26,454 - Yeah. 1432 01:09:26,593 --> 01:09:28,584 And I agree. I'd like to see that reversed 1433 01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:32,597 as much as possible. I... 1434 01:09:32,733 --> 01:09:34,598 - Start tonight. - Well, the thing is, 1435 01:09:34,735 --> 01:09:36,600 I don't know how to start tonight. 1436 01:09:36,737 --> 01:09:38,602 I don't know how to tell that story. 1437 01:09:38,739 --> 01:09:40,604 If I was smart enough to do that... 1438 01:09:40,741 --> 01:09:43,107 - I'll pitch you one. - Okay. All right. 1439 01:09:43,243 --> 01:09:45,609 - Um... um... 1440 01:09:45,746 --> 01:09:48,078 Do a show called not Cops but Corporate Cops. 1441 01:09:50,918 --> 01:09:51,942 "Corporation man Hey Corporate man 1442 01:09:52,085 --> 01:09:54,576 "We're coming out to get you better run while you can 1443 01:09:54,955 --> 01:09:58,015 "We're coming out to get you better run while you can" 1444 01:09:58,158 --> 01:10:00,126 - Uh... I love the idea. 1445 01:10:00,260 --> 01:10:03,627 I don't think it would make very interesting reality TV. 1446 01:10:03,764 --> 01:10:07,131 Unless we can get those people to get in their SUVs 1447 01:10:07,267 --> 01:10:10,634 and drive really fast down the road away from the police. 1448 01:10:10,771 --> 01:10:12,864 - But I'm telling you, everyone in America 1449 01:10:13,006 --> 01:10:14,871 who's got just your basic, everyday job 1450 01:10:15,008 --> 01:10:17,476 is gonna love watching the boss 1451 01:10:17,611 --> 01:10:19,579 being chased down the street with his shirt off, 1452 01:10:19,713 --> 01:10:21,112 thrown to the ground 1453 01:10:21,248 --> 01:10:24,115 and a knee to the neck. I tell you, that is gonna get ratings. 1454 01:10:24,251 --> 01:10:27,118 - Yeah, I'm with you. And if I can find a police outfit 1455 01:10:27,254 --> 01:10:31,088 that would prosecute corporate criminals appropriately 1456 01:10:31,225 --> 01:10:33,090 and would go after them appropriately... In other words, 1457 01:10:33,227 --> 01:10:36,094 what you do to a man who's just stolen a lady's purse 1458 01:10:36,230 --> 01:10:38,095 with $85 to it, 1459 01:10:38,232 --> 01:10:41,599 than you need to do an appropriate response 1460 01:10:41,735 --> 01:10:45,603 to a man who has just stolen $85 million from indigent people, 1461 01:10:45,739 --> 01:10:47,604 then, boy, we're gonna be out there filming that. 1462 01:10:47,741 --> 01:10:50,608 But as a matter of fact, when police go after the guy 1463 01:10:50,744 --> 01:10:52,609 who's just stolen $85 million, 1464 01:10:52,746 --> 01:10:55,613 they treat him like he was a member of the city council - 1465 01:10:55,749 --> 01:10:59,116 as he may or may not be - and it's not exciting television. 1466 01:10:59,253 --> 01:11:01,619 If you could get that guy to take his shirt off... 1467 01:11:01,755 --> 01:11:03,620 - Right. 1468 01:11:03,757 --> 01:11:05,622 - Yeah, and throw his cellular phone at the police 1469 01:11:05,759 --> 01:11:07,624 as they come through the door, 1470 01:11:07,761 --> 01:11:10,753 try to jump out that window, then we'd have a show. 1471 01:11:10,897 --> 01:11:13,559 - You watch violence on TV in a place like Canada 1472 01:11:13,700 --> 01:11:15,565 and you know it's not happening next door. 1473 01:11:15,702 --> 01:11:19,570 You watch it here, and you know it is happening next door. 1474 01:11:19,706 --> 01:11:21,571 - Right. - I think that's... 1475 01:11:21,708 --> 01:11:23,573 I don't know what the difference is, 1476 01:11:23,710 --> 01:11:25,575 but there's a big difference. - Yeah, but why isn't... 1477 01:11:25,712 --> 01:11:27,577 Why isn't it happening in Canada? 1478 01:11:27,714 --> 01:11:30,581 Why aren't there, you know, 10,000 murders a year? 1479 01:11:30,717 --> 01:11:33,584 - I don't know, but I want to go to Canada to retire, 1480 01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,587 or something, 'cause it sounds like where we want to be. 1481 01:11:36,723 --> 01:11:39,590 I'd like to find out what that difference is. Wouldn't you? 1482 01:11:39,726 --> 01:11:41,626 - Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to find out. 1483 01:11:47,834 --> 01:11:50,598 Where are you supposed to be right now? 1484 01:11:50,737 --> 01:11:52,602 - School. - School. 1485 01:11:52,739 --> 01:11:54,206 - School. 1486 01:11:54,341 --> 01:11:56,206 - Aren't you worried about what you're not learning? 1487 01:11:56,343 --> 01:11:58,208 - Nah, I'm mostly helping everybody else in the class. 1488 01:11:58,345 --> 01:12:01,542 Then I barely get to do my work. - How about you? You're not 1489 01:12:01,682 --> 01:12:04,708 worried about your education? - Well, I've got the textbook. 1490 01:12:04,851 --> 01:12:07,376 - Why do you think we have so many, uh... 1491 01:12:07,521 --> 01:12:09,716 gun murders in America? - Uh... 1492 01:12:09,856 --> 01:12:13,053 I have no idea. People must hate each other or something. 1493 01:12:13,193 --> 01:12:15,058 - Oh, you mean Canadians don't hate each other? 1494 01:12:15,195 --> 01:12:18,062 - Well, we do but we don't go to the point of shooting somebody 1495 01:12:18,198 --> 01:12:21,065 just to get revenge. - What do you do? 1496 01:12:21,201 --> 01:12:23,567 - I don't know. Tease them, maybe. 1497 01:12:23,704 --> 01:12:27,037 Make fun of them, ridicule them. - Throw eggs at them. 1498 01:12:27,174 --> 01:12:30,075 - How many gun murders in Sarnia this year? 1499 01:12:30,210 --> 01:12:32,075 - None. - Last year? 1500 01:12:32,212 --> 01:12:34,077 - I believe we had one, at the time. 1501 01:12:34,214 --> 01:12:36,079 - The year before that? 1502 01:12:36,216 --> 01:12:38,582 - I can't recall what we had in the way of-- 1503 01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:40,584 - Maybe one in the last three years? 1504 01:12:40,721 --> 01:12:42,586 - Probably, yes. - Mm-hm. 1505 01:12:42,723 --> 01:12:45,886 - Very low. Very low for this city. 1506 01:12:46,026 --> 01:12:47,891 - Well, of course, there's no murders here 1507 01:12:48,028 --> 01:12:49,893 because there's only 70,000 people 1508 01:12:50,030 --> 01:12:52,726 and it's the kissing capital of the world. 1509 01:12:52,866 --> 01:12:55,198 So I went down the river to another Canadian city 1510 01:12:55,335 --> 01:12:57,200 that was five times as large as Sarnia: 1511 01:12:57,337 --> 01:13:00,704 Windsor, Ontario, just across the river from Detroit. 1512 01:13:00,841 --> 01:13:04,641 I was sure there'd be more murders in Windsor. 1513 01:13:04,778 --> 01:13:07,645 Ever hear of anyone being shot by a gun in Windsor? 1514 01:13:07,781 --> 01:13:09,806 - No. No. 1515 01:13:09,950 --> 01:13:11,747 - You remember any murders here? 1516 01:13:11,885 --> 01:13:15,048 - Uh, there was one a long time ago. Probably-- 1517 01:13:15,188 --> 01:13:18,555 - How long ago? - Oh... 1518 01:13:18,692 --> 01:13:20,557 - In your lifetime? - In my lifetime, 1519 01:13:20,694 --> 01:13:24,152 probably around 15, 20 years ago, there was one murder. 1520 01:13:24,297 --> 01:13:26,265 - In fact, this Windsor policeman told me 1521 01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:27,765 that the only gun murder 1522 01:13:27,901 --> 01:13:30,062 he could recall in Windsor in the last three years 1523 01:13:30,203 --> 01:13:32,569 was committed by a guy from Detroit, 1524 01:13:32,706 --> 01:13:35,174 who had a stolen gun from Minnesota. 1525 01:13:35,308 --> 01:13:39,108 With nearly 400,000 people in the Windsor area, 1526 01:13:39,246 --> 01:13:43,512 there were simply no Canadians shooting other Canadians. 1527 01:13:43,650 --> 01:13:45,140 I thought it might be time 1528 01:13:45,285 --> 01:13:49,153 for some fun facts about Canada. 1529 01:13:49,289 --> 01:13:51,519 I hit the streets of New York to find out what 1530 01:13:51,658 --> 01:13:54,024 the average American thought about our friendly neighbour 1531 01:13:54,161 --> 01:13:55,594 to the north. 1532 01:13:55,729 --> 01:14:01,031 - Canadians don't watch as much violent movies as Americans do. 1533 01:14:05,472 --> 01:14:07,099 - That's wrong. 1534 01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,333 Hordes of young boys, all throughout Canada, 1535 01:14:09,476 --> 01:14:12,001 eagerly await the next Hollywood bloodbath. 1536 01:14:12,145 --> 01:14:14,545 - Then one of the guy gets his leg taken off. 1537 01:14:14,681 --> 01:14:17,548 - Oh, wow! - And there was a lot of girls, 1538 01:14:17,684 --> 01:14:21,142 and naked at one point. - I like that stuff. 1539 01:14:21,288 --> 01:14:24,314 - What movie did you see tonight? - Sixth Day. 1540 01:14:24,458 --> 01:14:27,359 - With Arnold Schwarzenegger? - Yeah. 1541 01:14:27,494 --> 01:14:29,359 - Did it make you want to come out here 1542 01:14:29,496 --> 01:14:31,361 and play this shoot-'em-up game? 1543 01:14:31,498 --> 01:14:33,693 - Well... yeah. 1544 01:14:33,834 --> 01:14:36,564 - There's no poverty in Canada like there is here... 1545 01:14:36,703 --> 01:14:38,671 in the States. 1546 01:14:38,805 --> 01:14:40,170 - Wrong again. 1547 01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,208 Mayor Mike Bradley Sarnia, Ontario, Canada 1548 01:14:42,309 --> 01:14:44,004 - Actually, we've also had a much higher unemployment rate. 1549 01:14:44,077 --> 01:14:46,705 When Michigan rate was running at 4%, we were still at 8-9%, 1550 01:14:46,813 --> 01:14:48,804 We seem to have an institutional unemployment rate. 1551 01:14:48,949 --> 01:14:51,179 - I think there'd mostly be white people in Canada. 1552 01:14:51,318 --> 01:14:54,185 - Hmm... that's strange, 'cause when I'm in Canada, 1553 01:14:54,321 --> 01:14:56,846 I see black people everywhere. 1554 01:14:56,990 --> 01:14:58,855 And yellow people, and brown people... 1555 01:14:58,992 --> 01:15:00,584 and 13% of the country is non-white. 1556 01:15:00,727 --> 01:15:02,854 So the Canadians are 1557 01:15:02,996 --> 01:15:06,193 pretty much just like us. And the reason that they have (Toronto, Canada) 1558 01:15:06,333 --> 01:15:09,598 so few murders has to be because they've got 1559 01:15:09,736 --> 01:15:12,034 so few guns. 1560 01:15:16,176 --> 01:15:18,940 What kind of guns do you own? - Uh, I hunt. 1561 01:15:19,079 --> 01:15:21,547 I own rifles and shotguns, and I own pistols. 1562 01:15:21,681 --> 01:15:25,048 - Mm-hm. So how many guns total? - Uh... Probably about seven. 1563 01:15:25,185 --> 01:15:26,618 - Seven guns? - Yeah. 1564 01:15:26,753 --> 01:15:28,550 - Do you have a gun? - I have a few. 1565 01:15:28,688 --> 01:15:31,555 - How many guns do you have? - Half a dozen. 1566 01:15:31,691 --> 01:15:35,058 - You could name how many people that own guns, that you know? 1567 01:15:35,195 --> 01:15:37,891 Two, three, a dozen? - More than that. 1568 01:15:38,031 --> 01:15:40,591 - There's a tremendous amount of gun ownership. 1569 01:15:40,734 --> 01:15:42,565 We're a large country geographically. 1570 01:15:42,702 --> 01:15:45,034 We grew up with hunting and fishing being a tradition. 1571 01:15:45,171 --> 01:15:47,571 - In Canada, with a population of just around 30 million - 1572 01:15:47,707 --> 01:15:49,572 there's about 10 million families - 1573 01:15:49,709 --> 01:15:51,574 and the best estimate is somewhere in the region 1574 01:15:51,711 --> 01:15:53,474 of seven-million guns. 1575 01:15:53,613 --> 01:15:54,910 - Wow! 1576 01:15:55,048 --> 01:15:57,278 Canada was one gun-loving, 1577 01:15:57,417 --> 01:16:00,250 gun-toting, gun-crazy country! 1578 01:16:01,888 --> 01:16:04,789 Where can you get a gun? - Uptown, any time I want. 1579 01:16:04,925 --> 01:16:06,153 - I see you're a Glock owner. 1580 01:16:06,293 --> 01:16:09,091 Where can I get a Glock in Canada? 1581 01:16:09,229 --> 01:16:11,595 - Most gun stores'll sell 'em to you 1582 01:16:11,731 --> 01:16:13,528 if you have the proper permits and stuff. 1583 01:16:13,667 --> 01:16:15,658 - In fact, despite all their tough gun laws, 1584 01:16:15,802 --> 01:16:17,565 take a look at what I, 1585 01:16:17,704 --> 01:16:20,298 a foreign citizen, was able to do 1586 01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:22,237 at the local Canadian Wal-Mart. 1587 01:16:22,375 --> 01:16:25,037 Where's the ammunition at? - Where's the ammunition? 1588 01:16:25,178 --> 01:16:26,577 - Yeah. - Back here. 1589 01:16:30,216 --> 01:16:33,083 What kind are you looking for? - You know, like, bullets. 1590 01:16:35,188 --> 01:16:36,849 That's right. 1591 01:16:36,990 --> 01:16:39,857 I could buy as much live ammunition as I wanted to 1592 01:16:39,993 --> 01:16:41,722 in Canada. You take American? 1593 01:16:41,861 --> 01:16:43,590 Do you lock your doors? 1594 01:16:43,730 --> 01:16:46,221 - No. - Are you afraid of anything? 1595 01:16:46,333 --> 01:16:48,267 Sarnia, Canada 1596 01:16:48,368 --> 01:16:51,804 - Nah, not really, no. - Do you lock your doors at night? 1597 01:16:51,938 --> 01:16:53,803 - No. - You don't lock your doors? 1598 01:16:53,940 --> 01:16:55,567 - No. - Well, what do you... 1599 01:16:55,709 --> 01:16:57,973 Are you afraid of anything? - Not really. 1600 01:16:58,111 --> 01:17:01,569 - Have you ever been broken into? - Yes, I have. Yeah. 1601 01:17:01,715 --> 01:17:04,081 - What happened? - They broke into my home. 1602 01:17:04,217 --> 01:17:06,082 I wasn't there. They broke in, 1603 01:17:06,219 --> 01:17:08,779 they stole some booze and cigarettes and they left. 1604 01:17:08,922 --> 01:17:11,186 So I figure it must've been some teenagers 1605 01:17:11,324 --> 01:17:15,090 out to have a little bit of fun. That's all they took, though. 1606 01:17:15,228 --> 01:17:16,957 Just some booze and some cigarettes. 1607 01:17:17,097 --> 01:17:18,962 - Have you ever been a victim of crime? 1608 01:17:19,099 --> 01:17:21,033 - Yes. - What kind of crime? 1609 01:17:21,167 --> 01:17:23,533 - Uh, I've had people walk in while I've been sleeping 1610 01:17:23,670 --> 01:17:26,537 and vandalize my home and steal from me. 1611 01:17:26,673 --> 01:17:29,540 - And that didn't want to make you lock your doors at night? 1612 01:17:29,676 --> 01:17:32,167 - No. No. 1613 01:17:32,312 --> 01:17:34,974 - As an American with three locks on his doors, 1614 01:17:35,115 --> 01:17:37,174 I found this all a bit confusing. 1615 01:17:37,317 --> 01:17:39,751 Even here, in Toronto, a city of millions, 1616 01:17:39,886 --> 01:17:41,353 people just didn't lock their doors. 1617 01:17:43,790 --> 01:17:45,553 So you don't lock your doors but we, Americans, do. Why is that? 1618 01:17:45,692 --> 01:17:48,320 - You must be afraid of your neighbour. 1619 01:17:48,461 --> 01:17:50,554 - Do you ever leave your doors unlocked at home? 1620 01:17:50,697 --> 01:17:53,063 - Yeah. - Yeah, you do? 1621 01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:55,064 Where do you live? - Right around here. 1622 01:17:55,201 --> 01:17:56,566 - Toronto? - Around here. 1623 01:17:56,703 --> 01:17:58,364 - You leave your doors unlocked? - Yeah. 1624 01:17:58,505 --> 01:18:00,370 - You'd think, as Americans, 1625 01:18:00,507 --> 01:18:04,068 that the lock is keeping people out of your place. 1626 01:18:04,210 --> 01:18:07,577 We, as Canadians, see it more as, uh... 1627 01:18:07,714 --> 01:18:11,081 when we lock the door, we're imprisoning ourselves inside. 1628 01:18:11,217 --> 01:18:13,014 - You don't want to do that. 1629 01:18:13,153 --> 01:18:15,018 - Not really, no. 1630 01:18:15,155 --> 01:18:18,886 We don't want to... No. 1631 01:18:19,025 --> 01:18:22,517 - I decided to go unannounced to a neighbourhood in Toronto 1632 01:18:22,662 --> 01:18:26,029 to see if this unlocked-door thing was true. 1633 01:18:26,166 --> 01:18:28,396 Oh, hi. I'm sorry. Just checking. 1634 01:18:33,173 --> 01:18:35,232 Oh, hello! 1635 01:18:42,182 --> 01:18:43,547 - Oh, hi. - Hi. 1636 01:18:43,683 --> 01:18:45,548 - Nobody locks their doors. 1637 01:18:45,685 --> 01:18:47,550 Nobody locks their doors in this town. 1638 01:18:47,687 --> 01:18:50,485 - You want to lock? - No, no, no. 1639 01:18:50,623 --> 01:18:52,557 Do you like living here? - I like it very much. 1640 01:18:52,692 --> 01:18:54,990 - Yeah? And the T-shirt? - The T-shirt too. 1641 01:18:55,128 --> 01:18:57,187 - This door was wide open. And you're not afraid? 1642 01:18:57,330 --> 01:18:59,628 - Should I be afraid? - I don't know. You live here. 1643 01:18:59,766 --> 01:19:01,825 - I don't think I'm afraid. - You're not, are you? 1644 01:19:01,968 --> 01:19:03,833 Thank you very much. - All right. No problem. 1645 01:19:03,970 --> 01:19:05,835 - I'm sorry about the intrusion. - No, no problem. 1646 01:19:05,972 --> 01:19:08,338 - Thank you for not shooting me. - No problem at all. 1647 01:19:08,475 --> 01:19:09,840 - Bye-bye. - Okay. 1648 01:19:09,976 --> 01:19:11,034 - As an American, 1649 01:19:11,177 --> 01:19:13,475 I gotta say this all seemed kind of strange. 1650 01:19:13,613 --> 01:19:15,376 Until I looked up at the TV 1651 01:19:15,515 --> 01:19:17,506 in the bar and noticed what they watched 1652 01:19:17,650 --> 01:19:18,582 for their evening news. 1653 01:19:18,718 --> 01:19:21,312 - They're friends of ours. 1654 01:19:21,454 --> 01:19:24,582 We'll certainly listen to them courteously and carefully, 1655 01:19:24,724 --> 01:19:28,387 but you don't just make war just 'cause someone says so. 1656 01:19:28,528 --> 01:19:32,430 - The Canadians weren't being pumped full of fear. 1657 01:19:32,565 --> 01:19:34,692 And their politicians seemed to talk kind of funny. 1658 01:19:34,868 --> 01:19:36,859 Mayor Mike Bradley Sarnia, Canada 1659 01:19:36,970 --> 01:19:39,268 - ...making sure they have good daycare, assistance for their parents 1660 01:19:39,372 --> 01:19:41,602 when they're elderly and need to be in an old-age home, 1661 01:19:41,741 --> 01:19:42,765 that they have proper health care that insures 1662 01:19:42,909 --> 01:19:45,241 that they won't lose their business or their house 1663 01:19:45,378 --> 01:19:47,141 because they can't afford their medical bills. 1664 01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:49,077 That's how you build a good society. 1665 01:19:49,215 --> 01:19:51,581 No one wins unless everyone wins. And you don't win 1666 01:19:51,718 --> 01:19:53,845 by beating up on people who can't defend themselves. 1667 01:19:53,987 --> 01:19:55,352 And that's been the approach, unfortunately, 1668 01:19:55,488 --> 01:19:57,854 that's been spreading with some of the right-wing governments 1669 01:19:57,991 --> 01:19:59,618 across North America. They pick onto people 1670 01:19:59,759 --> 01:20:01,886 that can't defend themselves and at the same time, 1671 01:20:02,028 --> 01:20:03,655 they're turning around and giving financial support 1672 01:20:03,797 --> 01:20:06,766 and tax breaks and tax benefits to people that don't need them. 1673 01:20:06,900 --> 01:20:10,131 - Where are the indigents in the city? Where do they live? 1674 01:20:10,270 --> 01:20:13,068 - Uh... indigent... uh... 1675 01:20:13,206 --> 01:20:15,572 - You act like you've never heard the word before. 1676 01:20:15,708 --> 01:20:17,573 - There's... We don't have that problem here, really. It's... 1677 01:20:17,710 --> 01:20:19,075 - So I asked him, 1678 01:20:19,212 --> 01:20:21,578 "Could you at least take me to a Canadian slum," 1679 01:20:21,714 --> 01:20:23,181 and well... 1680 01:20:23,316 --> 01:20:26,479 this is what a ghetto looks like in Canada. 1681 01:20:26,619 --> 01:20:29,747 Is this the same mentality that says, with Canadians, if someone 1682 01:20:29,889 --> 01:20:33,325 gets sick, they should actually be able to have health care? 1683 01:20:33,459 --> 01:20:35,324 - Yeah. - Oh, definitely. 1684 01:20:35,461 --> 01:20:37,588 - Yeah. - Yup. 1685 01:20:37,730 --> 01:20:39,095 - Why? 1686 01:20:39,232 --> 01:20:41,029 - Because! 1687 01:20:41,167 --> 01:20:43,032 - Human rights. Everyone's got the right to live. 1688 01:20:43,169 --> 01:20:45,034 - You just came out of the emergency room? 1689 01:20:45,171 --> 01:20:46,604 - Yes, I did. 1690 01:20:46,739 --> 01:20:49,105 - How much did you have to pay for your treatment? 1691 01:20:49,242 --> 01:20:51,107 - The bill is covered by our hospital plan. 1692 01:20:51,244 --> 01:20:53,109 - You're telling me you didn't have to pay anything? 1693 01:20:53,246 --> 01:20:54,736 - No, I don't. 1694 01:20:54,881 --> 01:20:57,247 - I have family that lives in the States. 1695 01:20:57,383 --> 01:20:59,749 They used to live in Canada and moved over there. 1696 01:20:59,886 --> 01:21:03,117 And it's so different. - They get afraid more easily. 1697 01:21:03,256 --> 01:21:05,121 - Oh, yeah. 1698 01:21:05,258 --> 01:21:07,123 Yeah, very much so. 1699 01:21:07,260 --> 01:21:11,128 'Cause everybody reacts over there just like that. 1700 01:21:11,264 --> 01:21:14,062 They don't stop and think. 1701 01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,569 First reaction is pull the gun out. "You're on my property." 1702 01:21:18,705 --> 01:21:22,072 You know, like... 1703 01:21:22,208 --> 01:21:25,371 I don't know. It's just different over here. 1704 01:21:25,511 --> 01:21:27,376 - Where do you live? - Detroit. (Windsor, Canada) 1705 01:21:27,513 --> 01:21:29,071 - Come over to Canada here for the night? 1706 01:21:29,215 --> 01:21:30,580 - Right. 1707 01:21:30,717 --> 01:21:33,811 - People are more open-minded here, a bit more welcoming. 1708 01:21:33,953 --> 01:21:36,581 - Feel any difference when you cross over to this country? 1709 01:21:36,723 --> 01:21:38,748 Be honest, now, come on. - It's a lot lighter. 1710 01:21:38,892 --> 01:21:40,757 - The segregation over there is definitely much more-- 1711 01:21:40,894 --> 01:21:42,759 - In the United States. - ...more intensified 1712 01:21:42,896 --> 01:21:44,761 in the States, yeah. - Yeah. 1713 01:21:44,898 --> 01:21:46,957 - So you can... You can feel it. 1714 01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:49,261 - Almost like they just let you be. 1715 01:21:49,402 --> 01:21:51,495 - That's Canada for you. 1716 01:21:51,638 --> 01:21:53,606 - Every time I turn on the TV in the States, 1717 01:21:53,740 --> 01:21:57,107 it's always about a murder here, a gunfight, hostile position... 1718 01:21:57,243 --> 01:22:00,610 - I just think the States, their view of things is fighting. 1719 01:22:00,747 --> 01:22:02,612 That's how they resolve everything. 1720 01:22:02,749 --> 01:22:05,616 If there's... there's something going on in another country, 1721 01:22:05,752 --> 01:22:07,617 they send people over to fight it and... 1722 01:22:07,754 --> 01:22:10,120 - They are the most powerful country in the world, though. 1723 01:22:10,256 --> 01:22:12,053 - Canada's more just, like, "Let's negotiate, 1724 01:22:12,191 --> 01:22:14,557 let's work something out." Where the States is, 1725 01:22:14,694 --> 01:22:17,094 "We'll kill you and that'll be the end of that." 1726 01:22:17,230 --> 01:22:22,065 - Um, if guns were... If more guns made people safer, 1727 01:22:22,201 --> 01:22:25,261 then America would be one of the safest countries in the world. 1728 01:22:25,405 --> 01:22:27,305 It isn't. It's the opposite. 1729 01:23:11,951 --> 01:23:13,919 - I heard that 911 call, you know, on TV someplace. 1730 01:23:14,053 --> 01:23:15,918 It was horrible. It was just... 1731 01:23:16,055 --> 01:23:17,784 - 'Cause he kept asking, "Where's the shooter?" 1732 01:23:17,924 --> 01:23:19,915 She said, "He's gone. I need some help." 1733 01:23:20,059 --> 01:23:21,458 - The little girl was in there too? 1734 01:23:21,594 --> 01:23:24,529 - She was on the floor, yes. 1735 01:23:24,664 --> 01:23:26,564 - And the police and the medics came, or... 1736 01:23:26,699 --> 01:23:28,564 - By the time the medics were here... 1737 01:23:28,701 --> 01:23:31,568 The medics had just come in and I remember him stepping in 1738 01:23:31,704 --> 01:23:34,571 and taking over the room. He said, "You have to leave." 1739 01:23:34,707 --> 01:23:36,572 - All right. - And then when the meds come in, 1740 01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:39,075 when the police come in, you're no longer in control. 1741 01:23:39,212 --> 01:23:42,079 They take over the building. - Was she still alive then? 1742 01:23:42,215 --> 01:23:44,479 - Her lips had become totally blue. 1743 01:23:47,086 --> 01:23:48,747 - Back in my hometown of Flint, Michigan, 1744 01:23:48,855 --> 01:23:52,552 a six-year-old first-grade boy, at Buell Elementary, 1745 01:23:52,692 --> 01:23:55,092 had found a gun at his uncle's house, 1746 01:23:55,228 --> 01:23:58,561 where he was staying because his mother was being evicted. 1747 01:23:58,698 --> 01:24:02,566 He brought the gun to school and shot another first-grader, 1748 01:24:02,702 --> 01:24:05,728 six-year-old Kayla Rolland. 1749 01:24:05,872 --> 01:24:08,102 With one bullet that passed through her body, 1750 01:24:08,241 --> 01:24:10,869 she fell to the floor and laid there dying 1751 01:24:11,010 --> 01:24:14,468 while her teacher called 911 for help. 1752 01:24:14,614 --> 01:24:16,445 No one knew why the little boy 1753 01:24:16,582 --> 01:24:18,140 wanted to shoot the little girl. 1754 01:24:18,284 --> 01:24:20,479 As if the city had not been through 1755 01:24:20,620 --> 01:24:21,644 enough horror and tragedy 1756 01:24:21,788 --> 01:24:24,154 in the past two decades, it was now home 1757 01:24:24,290 --> 01:24:27,418 to a new record: the youngest school shooting ever 1758 01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:29,425 in the United States. 1759 01:24:29,562 --> 01:24:32,224 On the morning of the shooting, 1760 01:24:32,365 --> 01:24:36,324 it only took the helicopters and satellite trucks 1761 01:24:36,469 --> 01:24:37,902 a half-hour to show up. 1762 01:24:38,037 --> 01:24:39,595 - They check in the truck. 1763 01:24:39,739 --> 01:24:42,674 You know, we're doing one in 30 minutes again. 1764 01:24:42,809 --> 01:24:44,674 - This evening, about seven o'clock, 1765 01:24:44,811 --> 01:24:47,541 will be a public memorial service. Hundreds of people 1766 01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,013 will mourn the loss of little Kayla, a tiny little girl 1767 01:24:51,150 --> 01:24:53,175 who loved pizza, teddy bears, 1768 01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:56,413 and who was taken away from us much too soon. Gina? 1769 01:24:56,556 --> 01:24:58,421 - Good morning, Christine. The funeral home now passing out 1770 01:24:58,558 --> 01:25:00,583 tens of thousands of these pink ribbons 1771 01:25:00,726 --> 01:25:03,092 to support the young girl's family. 1772 01:25:03,229 --> 01:25:05,595 Today will be an emotional day and has been already, 1773 01:25:05,731 --> 01:25:07,631 remembering little Kayla. 1774 01:25:07,767 --> 01:25:09,632 Jeff Ross, Fox-2 News. 1775 01:25:12,171 --> 01:25:13,570 - Nice job. 1776 01:25:15,675 --> 01:25:18,041 - Yeah, Michelle, we're having technical problems, okay? 1777 01:25:18,177 --> 01:25:21,203 Well, don't talk to me about it, call our sat truck. 1778 01:25:21,347 --> 01:25:23,212 I need a haircut, man. 1779 01:25:23,349 --> 01:25:26,546 I'm a pig. A rug. 1780 01:25:26,686 --> 01:25:28,085 Here we go. 1781 01:25:33,192 --> 01:25:35,057 Some too choked up even to speak about it. 1782 01:25:35,194 --> 01:25:37,059 There's a memorial service scheduled here 1783 01:25:37,196 --> 01:25:39,061 for seven o'clock tonight. 1784 01:25:39,198 --> 01:25:41,063 We're live in Flint, Michigan, this afternoon. 1785 01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,100 Jeff Ross, Q-13 Reports. 1786 01:25:47,707 --> 01:25:49,334 Thank you. - Thank you. 1787 01:25:49,408 --> 01:25:51,376 - Want some hairspray? 1788 01:25:51,444 --> 01:25:53,412 - I kind of need it, don't I? - Yeah, you do, 1789 01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:54,503 - I got some... 1790 01:25:54,580 --> 01:25:56,639 - I have some. I just didn't put it in. I didn't have a chance. 1791 01:25:56,716 --> 01:25:58,411 I have hurricane-proof hairspray. 1792 01:25:58,484 --> 01:26:02,818 This man prayed for Kayla then let the balloon go. 1793 01:26:02,955 --> 01:26:04,479 I say we have the colour picture, 1794 01:26:04,624 --> 01:26:05,682 not the black-and-white. 1795 01:26:05,825 --> 01:26:07,690 Plenty of media here that covered Columbine. 1796 01:26:07,827 --> 01:26:10,091 You know, there are some networks, especially, 1797 01:26:10,229 --> 01:26:13,027 that go from, unfortunately, tragedy to tragedy. 1798 01:26:13,166 --> 01:26:18,536 And, uh, I feel bad for them. Because that's all they see... 1799 01:26:18,671 --> 01:26:20,662 The tragedies. 1800 01:26:20,806 --> 01:26:23,900 We're just trying to crunch right now 1801 01:26:24,043 --> 01:26:26,034 for the five and the six. 1802 01:26:26,179 --> 01:26:30,240 Today, we're feeding CNN and Fox, so... 1803 01:26:30,383 --> 01:26:34,547 - The national media had never visited Buell Elementary, 1804 01:26:34,687 --> 01:26:37,554 or the Beecher school district in which it sat, 1805 01:26:37,690 --> 01:26:40,056 or this part of Flint ever before. 1806 01:26:40,193 --> 01:26:43,560 And few, if any, of these reporters bothered to visit it 1807 01:26:43,696 --> 01:26:45,561 even when they were here now. 1808 01:26:45,698 --> 01:26:49,065 If they had ventured just a block away from the school 1809 01:26:49,202 --> 01:26:51,067 or the funeral home, they might have seen 1810 01:26:51,204 --> 01:26:53,570 a different kind of tragedy that, perhaps, would contain 1811 01:26:53,706 --> 01:26:57,267 some answers as to why this little girl was dead. 1812 01:26:59,245 --> 01:27:01,577 For over 20 years, this impoverished area, 1813 01:27:01,714 --> 01:27:03,705 in the hometown 1814 01:27:03,849 --> 01:27:05,714 of the world's largest corporation, 1815 01:27:05,851 --> 01:27:08,445 had been ignored as completely as it had been destroyed. 1816 01:27:08,588 --> 01:27:11,921 With 87% of the students living below 1817 01:27:12,058 --> 01:27:13,923 the official poverty line, 1818 01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:17,757 Buell and Beecher, and Flint, did not fit into 1819 01:27:17,897 --> 01:27:20,058 the accepted and widely circulated story line 1820 01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:22,793 put forth by the nation's media. 1821 01:27:22,935 --> 01:27:27,133 That being the one about America 1822 01:27:27,273 --> 01:27:29,173 and its invincible economy. 1823 01:27:34,614 --> 01:27:36,980 The number-one cause of death among young people 1824 01:27:37,116 --> 01:27:40,313 in this part of Flint was homicide. The football field, 1825 01:27:40,453 --> 01:27:43,650 at Flint-Beecher, was sponsored by a funeral home. 1826 01:27:43,789 --> 01:27:47,418 The kids at Beecher have won 1827 01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:49,528 13 state track championships, 1828 01:27:49,662 --> 01:27:51,527 but they've never had 1829 01:27:51,664 --> 01:27:54,030 a home track meet. 1830 01:27:54,166 --> 01:27:56,066 Because around the football field, 1831 01:27:56,202 --> 01:27:58,033 all they have is this dirt ring. 1832 01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:04,767 Years ago, someone here named the streets, 1833 01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:08,175 in this part of town, after all the Ivy League schools, 1834 01:28:08,314 --> 01:28:11,613 as if they had dreamed of better days 1835 01:28:11,751 --> 01:28:14,049 and something greater for themselves. 1836 01:28:20,993 --> 01:28:24,360 - The children are doing well. 1837 01:28:24,497 --> 01:28:26,522 The faculty and staff are doing well. 1838 01:28:26,666 --> 01:28:28,531 But we don't forget. 1839 01:28:28,668 --> 01:28:31,466 We don't forget. 1840 01:28:31,604 --> 01:28:33,970 Just don't want this happening to anybody else, you know? 1841 01:28:34,106 --> 01:28:36,540 It's... 1842 01:28:36,676 --> 01:28:38,541 - I know. 1843 01:28:38,678 --> 01:28:42,546 I know. I don't want it to happen to anybody else either. 1844 01:28:42,682 --> 01:28:47,051 - Hmm... - It's okay. It's okay. 1845 01:28:47,186 --> 01:28:48,813 It's okay. 1846 01:28:49,188 --> 01:28:50,587 It's okay. 1847 01:28:55,194 --> 01:28:57,594 I'm sorry. - That's all right. 1848 01:29:00,700 --> 01:29:04,067 ...from my cold, dead hands! 1849 01:29:04,203 --> 01:29:07,070 - Just as he did 1850 01:29:07,206 --> 01:29:10,437 after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up 1851 01:29:10,576 --> 01:29:13,340 in Flint to have a big pro-gun rally. 1852 01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:15,344 - Freedom has never seen 1853 01:29:15,481 --> 01:29:19,577 greater peril nor needed you more urgently 1854 01:29:19,719 --> 01:29:21,846 to come to her defence than now. 1855 01:29:21,987 --> 01:29:23,579 - Before he came to Flint, Heston was interviewed 1856 01:29:23,723 --> 01:29:27,022 by the Georgetown Hoya about Kayla's death, 1857 01:29:27,159 --> 01:29:29,593 and even his own NRA website talked about it. 1858 01:29:29,729 --> 01:29:32,755 - We wanted to let the NRA know that we haven't forgotten 1859 01:29:32,898 --> 01:29:34,160 about Kayla Rolland. 1860 01:29:34,300 --> 01:29:36,768 How could they come here? To me, it's like they're rubbing 1861 01:29:36,902 --> 01:29:38,927 our nose in it. I was shocked 1862 01:29:39,071 --> 01:29:40,766 and appalled that they would come here. 1863 01:29:40,906 --> 01:29:44,171 - Heston was asked by a local reporter why he came to Flint 1864 01:29:44,310 --> 01:29:46,676 after the tragedy at Buell, 1865 01:29:46,812 --> 01:29:48,677 and what did the NRA have to say 1866 01:29:48,814 --> 01:29:50,839 about six-year-olds using guns. 1867 01:29:50,983 --> 01:29:55,852 - We spend $20 million every year 1868 01:29:55,988 --> 01:29:59,116 and then we teach you... to five and six-year-olds, 1869 01:29:59,258 --> 01:30:02,125 we say, "If you see a gun, don't touch it, 1870 01:30:02,261 --> 01:30:04,627 leave the room, call an adult." 1871 01:30:04,764 --> 01:30:07,289 - And then Moses himself showed up. 1872 01:30:07,433 --> 01:30:09,298 - Right here in the city of Flint? 1873 01:30:09,435 --> 01:30:11,300 - Right here in Flint. 1874 01:30:11,437 --> 01:30:13,337 - Were there people that wanted you to try this child, 1875 01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:15,407 Arthur Busch County Prosecutor, Flint, Michigan 1876 01:30:15,541 --> 01:30:18,567 or even try him as an adult? - Oh... Oh, yeah. 1877 01:30:18,711 --> 01:30:22,579 There were people from all over America that wrote and called 1878 01:30:22,715 --> 01:30:27,084 and sent mail and... It was amazing to me, um... 1879 01:30:27,219 --> 01:30:30,086 groups that were affiliated with the NRA - 1880 01:30:30,222 --> 01:30:34,090 groups, you know, people that I call "gun nuts" - 1881 01:30:34,226 --> 01:30:37,093 writing me and telling me what a horrible thing it was 1882 01:30:37,229 --> 01:30:41,598 that I had admonished homeowners in our country 1883 01:30:41,734 --> 01:30:45,602 to be careful about bringing weapons into their home. 1884 01:30:45,738 --> 01:30:49,105 They wanted this little boy hung from the highest tree. 1885 01:30:49,241 --> 01:30:52,108 I mean, there was such an undercurrent of racism 1886 01:30:52,244 --> 01:30:54,712 and hate and anger. 1887 01:30:54,814 --> 01:30:56,543 It was ugly. 1888 01:30:58,951 --> 01:31:00,475 - That's a picture that the little boy that was involved 1889 01:31:00,686 --> 01:31:01,948 in the Buell-school shooting... 1890 01:31:02,087 --> 01:31:04,112 Once he was brought back here to our office, 1891 01:31:04,256 --> 01:31:06,622 about 15 minutes after the shooting took place, 1892 01:31:06,759 --> 01:31:09,227 I gave him some crayons to kind of occupy him a little bit. 1893 01:31:09,295 --> 01:31:11,229 Michael Caldwell Police Detective 1894 01:31:11,297 --> 01:31:13,197 He came over and drew that picture for me. 1895 01:31:13,265 --> 01:31:15,392 Because at the time, I had pictures right behind my desk 1896 01:31:15,534 --> 01:31:18,401 that my children had drew for me and he wanted to draw me one. 1897 01:31:18,537 --> 01:31:21,938 - This is what he drew for you. What did he say this was? 1898 01:31:22,074 --> 01:31:23,268 - That's him at his house. 1899 01:31:23,409 --> 01:31:25,206 - That's him at his house, right here. 1900 01:31:25,344 --> 01:31:29,576 And why did you decide to hang on to it? 1901 01:31:29,715 --> 01:31:32,582 - Because of the gravity of the situation and what had occurred 1902 01:31:32,718 --> 01:31:35,084 and he asked me to hang that behind my desk, 1903 01:31:35,221 --> 01:31:38,122 so I put it in a frame and that's where it'll stay. 1904 01:31:40,226 --> 01:31:43,593 - Tamarla Owens was the mother of the six-year-old boy. 1905 01:31:43,729 --> 01:31:45,128 In order to get food stamps and health care for her children, 1906 01:31:48,434 --> 01:31:50,595 Tamarla was forced to work as part of the state of Michigan's 1907 01:31:50,736 --> 01:31:53,068 Welfare-to-Work Program. 1908 01:31:53,205 --> 01:31:55,264 This program was so successful 1909 01:31:55,407 --> 01:31:57,102 in tossing poor people off welfare 1910 01:31:57,243 --> 01:31:58,676 that it's founder, 1911 01:31:58,811 --> 01:32:00,676 Gerald Miller, was soon hired 1912 01:32:00,813 --> 01:32:03,839 by the number-one firm in the country that states turned to 1913 01:32:03,983 --> 01:32:08,283 to privatize their welfare systems. 1914 01:32:08,420 --> 01:32:12,186 That firm was Lockheed Martin. With the cold war over 1915 01:32:12,324 --> 01:32:14,792 and no enemy left to frighten the public, 1916 01:32:14,927 --> 01:32:16,792 Lockheed had found the perfect way to diversify 1917 01:32:16,929 --> 01:32:18,556 and the perfect way 1918 01:32:18,697 --> 01:32:20,562 to profit from people's fears, 1919 01:32:20,699 --> 01:32:22,564 with an enemy much closer to home: 1920 01:32:22,701 --> 01:32:25,101 poor black mothers 1921 01:32:25,237 --> 01:32:26,898 like Tamarla Owens. 1922 01:32:27,039 --> 01:32:30,008 - We've got a one-parent family and the mother's travelling 60 miles. 1923 01:32:30,109 --> 01:32:32,669 Sheriff Robert Pickell Flint, Michigan 1924 01:32:32,778 --> 01:32:34,973 An hour, an hour and a half away to go to work 1925 01:32:35,047 --> 01:32:37,038 an hour, an hour and a half to come home. 1926 01:32:37,116 --> 01:32:39,414 How does that help a community? But that's part of the state... 1927 01:32:39,552 --> 01:32:41,452 you know, making parents responsible, making them work-- 1928 01:32:41,587 --> 01:32:43,487 - Welfare to work. - Welfare to work. 1929 01:32:43,622 --> 01:32:45,613 That's a program that ought to be stopped 1930 01:32:45,758 --> 01:32:47,623 because it really has no merit. 1931 01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:49,625 I think it adds more to the problem 1932 01:32:49,762 --> 01:32:51,627 than it does to solve it. 1933 01:32:51,764 --> 01:32:53,595 - Really? - I do. 1934 01:32:53,732 --> 01:32:55,597 - You're the sheriff and you feel this way. 1935 01:32:55,734 --> 01:32:59,602 - I do, I do. I wish I could put two parents in every home 1936 01:32:59,738 --> 01:33:01,296 and make every parent equally responsible, 1937 01:33:01,440 --> 01:33:02,737 but I can't do that. 1938 01:33:02,875 --> 01:33:04,740 But we're not doing anything by taking one parent 1939 01:33:04,877 --> 01:33:07,744 and putting them on a bus and sending them out of town 1940 01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,371 to make $5.50 an hour. 1941 01:33:10,516 --> 01:33:13,314 - This is the bus that she was forced to ride every day 1942 01:33:13,452 --> 01:33:15,317 in order to work off the welfare money 1943 01:33:15,454 --> 01:33:17,354 the state had given her. 1944 01:33:20,693 --> 01:33:23,059 She, and many others from Flint who were poor, 1945 01:33:23,195 --> 01:33:26,062 would make the 80-mile round-trip journey every day, 1946 01:33:26,198 --> 01:33:28,758 from Flint to Auburn Hills, in Oakland County, 1947 01:33:28,901 --> 01:33:33,270 one of the wealthiest areas in the country. 1948 01:33:33,405 --> 01:33:35,270 Tamarla would leave 1949 01:33:35,407 --> 01:33:38,843 early in the morning and return late at night, 1950 01:33:38,978 --> 01:33:42,345 rarely seeing her young children. 1951 01:33:42,481 --> 01:33:45,575 - What's the point in doing that? Where does the state benefit? 1952 01:33:45,718 --> 01:33:48,084 Where does Flint and Genesee County benefit from that? 1953 01:33:48,220 --> 01:33:51,087 We have a child dead. I think that may be, in part, 1954 01:33:51,223 --> 01:33:53,088 part of the problem. 1955 01:33:53,225 --> 01:33:56,592 We drove the one parent out. 1956 01:33:56,729 --> 01:34:00,597 Now, you or anybody else that can tell me 1957 01:34:00,733 --> 01:34:03,600 that that best serves the community, 1958 01:34:03,736 --> 01:34:06,432 I shake my head and wonder why. 1959 01:34:06,572 --> 01:34:09,166 - How long you been riding the bus? 1960 01:34:09,308 --> 01:34:10,741 - I've been working here 1961 01:34:10,876 --> 01:34:13,037 just about three years now. - About three years? 1962 01:34:13,178 --> 01:34:16,545 - Yeah. My brother... I got my brother working here, 1963 01:34:16,682 --> 01:34:18,547 half of my neighbourhood works out here. 1964 01:34:18,684 --> 01:34:22,142 Just about everybody I know personally works in the mall. 1965 01:34:22,287 --> 01:34:25,051 In Flint, doing the same thing I'm doing now, 1966 01:34:25,190 --> 01:34:28,057 they only pay minimum wage in Flint. I come 40 miles 1967 01:34:28,193 --> 01:34:30,559 to make three or four dollars more an hour. 1968 01:34:30,696 --> 01:34:33,563 - How much do you make an hour? - I make 8.50 now. 1969 01:34:33,699 --> 01:34:35,564 - Is that enough to pay the bills? 1970 01:34:35,701 --> 01:34:37,100 - No. 1971 01:34:37,236 --> 01:34:39,329 - So did you know Tamarla Owens, 1972 01:34:39,471 --> 01:34:42,372 the woman whose son shot the little girl? 1973 01:34:42,508 --> 01:34:45,068 I think she rode this bus. - I knew her a little bit. 1974 01:34:45,210 --> 01:34:47,576 Not real good. - Nice lady? 1975 01:34:47,713 --> 01:34:51,080 - Yeah, she was okay. She came to work every day, did her job. 1976 01:34:51,216 --> 01:34:53,582 She worked two jobs, so... - She worked two jobs? 1977 01:34:53,719 --> 01:34:56,279 - She was trying to make ends meet. 1978 01:34:56,422 --> 01:34:58,287 "We're going hopping We're going hopping today 1979 01:34:58,424 --> 01:35:00,085 "Where things are popping... 1980 01:35:00,225 --> 01:35:02,352 - This is Dick Clark's American Bandstand Grill, 1981 01:35:02,494 --> 01:35:05,463 where Tamarla worked one of her two jobs. 1982 01:35:05,597 --> 01:35:07,462 "On the Bandstand Bandstand" 1983 01:35:07,599 --> 01:35:11,091 - I think she worked in this room here, as a bartender, 1984 01:35:11,236 --> 01:35:15,036 fountain-person making drinks, making shakes, desserts. 1985 01:35:15,174 --> 01:35:17,802 - Was she a good employee? - Yeah, she was. 1986 01:35:17,943 --> 01:35:20,912 She also worked at the Fudgery, in the mall here. 1987 01:35:23,749 --> 01:35:26,217 - Dick Clark is an American icon, 1988 01:35:26,351 --> 01:35:29,411 the man who brought rock'n'roll into our homes every week 1989 01:35:29,555 --> 01:35:30,453 on American Bandstand. 1990 01:35:30,589 --> 01:35:32,955 - Every part of your life, you can link up 1991 01:35:33,092 --> 01:35:34,992 to a part of music, usually. So, as Dick says, 1992 01:35:35,127 --> 01:35:37,061 "It's the soundtrack of our lives." 1993 01:35:37,196 --> 01:35:40,256 Music's the soundtrack of our lives. 1994 01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:42,560 - His restaurant and the Fudgery, here in Auburn Hills, 1995 01:35:42,701 --> 01:35:45,397 applied for special tax breaks because they were using 1996 01:35:45,537 --> 01:35:47,402 welfare people as employees. 1997 01:35:47,539 --> 01:35:49,734 Even though Tamarla worked up to 70 hours a week 1998 01:35:49,875 --> 01:35:51,740 at these two jobs 1999 01:35:51,877 --> 01:35:55,404 in the mall, she did not earn enough to pay her rent. 2000 01:35:55,547 --> 01:35:57,412 And one week before the shooting, 2001 01:35:57,549 --> 01:35:59,312 was told by her landlord 2002 01:35:59,451 --> 01:36:01,316 that he was evicting her. 2003 01:36:01,453 --> 01:36:03,944 With nowhere to go and not wanting to take 2004 01:36:04,089 --> 01:36:07,616 her two children out of school, Tamarla asked her brother 2005 01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:10,160 if they could stay with him for a few weeks. 2006 01:36:10,295 --> 01:36:12,092 It was there that Tamarla's son 2007 01:36:12,231 --> 01:36:16,998 found a small 32-calibre gun and took it to school. 2008 01:36:17,136 --> 01:36:19,536 Tamarla did not see him take the gun to school, 2009 01:36:19,671 --> 01:36:22,538 because she was on a state bus to go serve drinks 2010 01:36:22,674 --> 01:36:25,040 and make fudge for rich people. 2011 01:36:25,177 --> 01:36:27,805 "Bandstand" 2012 01:36:30,949 --> 01:36:32,814 I decided to fly out to California 2013 01:36:32,951 --> 01:36:35,749 to ask Dick Clark what he thought about a system 2014 01:36:35,888 --> 01:36:38,186 that forces poor, single mothers to work 2015 01:36:38,323 --> 01:36:40,553 two low-wage jobs to survive. 2016 01:36:40,692 --> 01:36:44,560 I'm doing a documentary on these school shootings 2017 01:36:44,696 --> 01:36:46,561 and, you know, guns and all that. 2018 01:36:46,698 --> 01:36:50,566 And in my hometown of Flint Michigan, which you know, 2019 01:36:50,702 --> 01:36:53,068 this little six-year-old shot a six-year-old-- 2020 01:36:53,205 --> 01:36:56,072 - Get in the car, Dave! Watch your arm, watch your arm. 2021 01:36:56,208 --> 01:36:59,075 - Oop, sorry, sorry. - I'm sorry, we're really late. 2022 01:36:59,211 --> 01:37:02,078 - Anyways, but the mother of the kid who did the shooting 2023 01:37:02,214 --> 01:37:04,580 works at Dick Clark's All-American Grill... 2024 01:37:04,716 --> 01:37:06,581 - Forget it. - ...in Oakland County... 2025 01:37:06,718 --> 01:37:08,583 - Close the door. - A Welfare-to-work program-- 2026 01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:10,585 - Close the door. - These people are forced... 2027 01:37:10,722 --> 01:37:12,519 Dick, no... - Bye-bye. Come on, move over! 2028 01:37:12,658 --> 01:37:15,525 - I want you to help me convince the governor of Michigan... 2029 01:37:15,661 --> 01:37:18,528 It's a Welfare-to-work pro... These women are forced to work! 2030 01:37:18,664 --> 01:37:20,529 They've got kids at home. Dick! 2031 01:37:20,666 --> 01:37:22,293 Ah, jeez! 2032 01:37:22,434 --> 01:37:25,028 In George Bush's America, 2033 01:37:25,170 --> 01:37:27,900 the poor were not a priority. 2034 01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:30,736 And after September 11th, 2001, 2035 01:37:30,876 --> 01:37:33,344 correcting America's social problems 2036 01:37:33,478 --> 01:37:35,378 took a back seat to fear, 2037 01:37:35,514 --> 01:37:38,244 panic and a new set of priorities. 2038 01:37:38,383 --> 01:37:41,045 - One way to express our unity 2039 01:37:41,186 --> 01:37:45,054 is for Congress to set the military budget, 2040 01:37:45,190 --> 01:37:47,055 the defence of the United States, 2041 01:37:47,192 --> 01:37:51,026 as the number-one priority and fully fund my request! 2042 01:37:55,701 --> 01:37:57,794 - We've been selling a lot of chemical suits, 2043 01:37:57,936 --> 01:38:00,564 with the gloves and the hoods. 2044 01:38:00,706 --> 01:38:02,867 And we've been selling a lot of gas masks. 2045 01:38:03,008 --> 01:38:05,203 - I'm trying to get one for myself and my puppy. 2046 01:38:05,344 --> 01:38:07,107 Denis Marks and his wife 2047 01:38:07,246 --> 01:38:08,406 have been stocking up supplies. 2048 01:38:08,547 --> 01:38:10,606 - Weapons, ammunition... 2049 01:38:10,749 --> 01:38:12,546 Wal-Mart says after September 11th, 2050 01:38:12,684 --> 01:38:15,016 gun sales surged 70%, 2051 01:38:15,153 --> 01:38:17,246 ammunition up 140%. 2052 01:38:17,389 --> 01:38:19,380 In Dallas, they're already taking potshots 2053 01:38:19,524 --> 01:38:21,389 at Osama bin Laden. 2054 01:38:21,526 --> 01:38:23,391 - In the months following the 9/11 attacks, 2055 01:38:23,528 --> 01:38:27,225 we, Americans, were gripped in a state of fear. 2056 01:38:27,366 --> 01:38:29,300 None of us knew if we too would die 2057 01:38:29,434 --> 01:38:31,800 at the hands of the evildoers, 2058 01:38:31,937 --> 01:38:33,427 or who might be sitting 2059 01:38:33,572 --> 01:38:36,405 next to some crazy guy trying to light his shoes on fire. 2060 01:38:36,541 --> 01:38:38,099 The threat seemed very real. 2061 01:38:38,243 --> 01:38:41,542 - Sounds a little paranoid but I'm not gonna take the chance. 2062 01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:43,648 Just trying to protect myself and my family. 2063 01:38:43,782 --> 01:38:45,682 - Our growing fears were turned 2064 01:38:45,817 --> 01:38:47,785 into a handsome profit for many. 2065 01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:49,319 - Mike Blake has seen 2066 01:38:49,454 --> 01:38:51,479 a 30% increase in sales at ADT 2067 01:38:51,623 --> 01:38:52,749 over the last month. 2068 01:38:52,891 --> 01:38:55,621 Most of the people he talks to are still a little uneasy 2069 01:38:55,761 --> 01:38:57,922 over the September 11th terrorist attacks. 2070 01:38:58,063 --> 01:39:00,327 - How are we afraid of all these things, it's because 2071 01:39:00,465 --> 01:39:03,457 a lot of people are making a lot of money off of it 2072 01:39:03,602 --> 01:39:05,593 and a lot of careers off of it. 2073 01:39:05,737 --> 01:39:07,762 And so, there's vested interests, 2074 01:39:07,906 --> 01:39:10,272 a lot of activity to keep us afraid. 2075 01:39:10,409 --> 01:39:13,071 - And what better way to fight box-cutter-wielding terrorists 2076 01:39:13,211 --> 01:39:15,577 than to order a record number of fighter jets 2077 01:39:15,714 --> 01:39:17,511 from Lockheed? 2078 01:39:17,649 --> 01:39:20,447 Yes, everyone felt safer, especially with the army 2079 01:39:20,585 --> 01:39:22,678 doing garbage detail on Park Avenue. 2080 01:39:22,821 --> 01:39:24,914 And the greatest benefit of all of a terrorized public 2081 01:39:25,057 --> 01:39:27,082 is that the corporate 2082 01:39:27,225 --> 01:39:32,094 and political leaders can get away with just about anything. 2083 01:39:32,230 --> 01:39:34,095 - I've never seen a better example 2084 01:39:34,232 --> 01:39:36,097 of cash-and-carry government 2085 01:39:36,234 --> 01:39:40,694 than this Bush administration and Enron. 2086 01:39:40,839 --> 01:39:42,704 - There were a lot of things that I didn't know 2087 01:39:42,841 --> 01:39:44,706 after the World Trade Center attack, 2088 01:39:44,843 --> 01:39:49,041 but one thing was clear: whether it was before or after 2089 01:39:49,181 --> 01:39:52,947 September 11th, a public that's this out of control with fear 2090 01:39:53,085 --> 01:39:55,645 should not have a lot of guns or ammo laying around. 2091 01:39:57,756 --> 01:40:02,125 - Well, I was shot with a Tech-9. 2092 01:40:02,260 --> 01:40:04,125 - Nine millimetre? 2093 01:40:04,262 --> 01:40:06,162 - Yeah. Yeah, I was, uh... 2094 01:40:08,266 --> 01:40:10,131 I guess it was supposed to be semi-automatic, 2095 01:40:10,268 --> 01:40:12,566 but it kind of seemed like fully automatic to me, 2096 01:40:12,704 --> 01:40:15,901 from what I remember. - This is Richard Costaldo. 2097 01:40:16,041 --> 01:40:20,068 And this is Mark Taylor. Both of these boys were shot 2098 01:40:20,212 --> 01:40:22,407 the day of the Columbine massacre. 2099 01:40:22,547 --> 01:40:26,608 Richard is paralyzed for life and in a wheelchair. 2100 01:40:26,752 --> 01:40:30,586 And Mark is barely standing after numerous operations. 2101 01:40:30,722 --> 01:40:33,088 - The kids at Columbine had to pay a penalty. 2102 01:40:33,225 --> 01:40:35,250 We paid a penalty that day... for this nation. 2103 01:40:35,394 --> 01:40:37,259 The way we look at it. 2104 01:40:37,396 --> 01:40:40,263 - Mark and Richard were disabled and suffering 2105 01:40:40,399 --> 01:40:44,768 from the 17-cent K-Mart bullets still embedded in their bodies. 2106 01:40:44,903 --> 01:40:48,134 As they showed me the various entry points for the bullets, 2107 01:40:48,273 --> 01:40:50,605 I thought of one way we could reduce 2108 01:40:50,742 --> 01:40:54,769 the number of guns and bullets laying around. I asked the boys 2109 01:40:54,913 --> 01:40:58,781 if they'd like to go to K-Mart to return the merchandise. 2110 01:41:01,753 --> 01:41:04,017 - Ready? - You... you go. 2111 01:41:22,574 --> 01:41:26,533 K-Mart Headquarters Troy, Michigan 2112 01:41:41,393 --> 01:41:42,758 - Hi. 2113 01:41:42,894 --> 01:41:44,759 - Excuse me, will you turn the camera off, please? 2114 01:41:44,896 --> 01:41:47,763 - We're here to see Mr. Conaway. - You have to turn the camera off 2115 01:41:47,899 --> 01:41:50,697 while you're in the building. - Oh, okay, all right. 2116 01:41:50,769 --> 01:41:52,532 Okay, turn it off now. 2117 01:41:53,438 --> 01:41:55,702 - Hey, Michael. - Hi, how are you? 2118 01:41:55,774 --> 01:41:58,265 - I'm Mary Lorenz. I'm director of Media Relations for K-Mart. 2119 01:41:58,410 --> 01:42:00,605 - Oh, good. All right, good. - How can I help you today? 2120 01:42:00,745 --> 01:42:03,612 - Well, I'm here today... This is Richard Costaldo. 2121 01:42:03,748 --> 01:42:06,114 - Richard, nice to meet you. - And this is Mark Taylor. 2122 01:42:06,251 --> 01:42:08,617 - Mark. - And they're students 2123 01:42:08,753 --> 01:42:12,553 from Columbine High School. They were shot at Columbine, 2124 01:42:12,691 --> 01:42:15,683 in the massacre, with bullets from K-Mart. 2125 01:42:15,827 --> 01:42:18,523 - You came a long way. All the way from Colorado. 2126 01:42:18,663 --> 01:42:22,565 - Yeah, I just... I was thinking that... 2127 01:42:22,701 --> 01:42:24,566 since you stopped selling the handguns and all, 2128 01:42:24,703 --> 01:42:28,571 it'd kind of make sense to stop selling the bullets too. 2129 01:42:28,707 --> 01:42:31,574 - Our request is that you get rid of nine-millimetre bullets 2130 01:42:31,710 --> 01:42:33,905 and that you don't sell them in the store completely. 2131 01:42:34,045 --> 01:42:36,570 - We do carry... You probably are aware of K-Mart - 2132 01:42:36,715 --> 01:42:39,081 hopefully, you're shoppers at our stores - 2133 01:42:39,217 --> 01:42:43,085 that we do only carry, you know, sporting firearms 2134 01:42:43,221 --> 01:42:48,090 and the accessories that go with the hunting sport. 2135 01:42:48,226 --> 01:42:51,593 And we'll certainly take your message to our chairman and CEO, 2136 01:42:51,730 --> 01:42:53,994 Chuck Conaway. He's not here today. 2137 01:42:54,132 --> 01:42:56,692 - He's not here today? - No. He's not here, actually, 2138 01:42:56,835 --> 01:42:59,395 this whole week. - Not at all during the week? 2139 01:42:59,538 --> 01:43:02,405 Do you have a limit on the number of bullets, ammunition, 2140 01:43:02,541 --> 01:43:04,406 that people can purchase? - You know, I can't answer 2141 01:43:04,543 --> 01:43:06,602 these questions for you. I'm not the merchandiser 2142 01:43:06,745 --> 01:43:08,144 who places those products in our stores. 2143 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:09,474 - Can we speak to that person? 2144 01:43:09,614 --> 01:43:11,673 - But I can get answers to those questions for you. 2145 01:43:11,816 --> 01:43:14,307 If you leave your card, I could get those answers for you. 2146 01:43:14,452 --> 01:43:15,919 - We don't want to leave a card. 2147 01:43:16,054 --> 01:43:18,215 The reason why we can't take a card 2148 01:43:18,356 --> 01:43:20,256 and come back is because Mark here, 2149 01:43:20,392 --> 01:43:23,259 he's got a K-Mart bullet just an inch away... right? 2150 01:43:23,395 --> 01:43:25,260 - Yeah. - From your aorta. 2151 01:43:25,397 --> 01:43:28,628 - In between my aorta and spine. - Between your aorta and spine. 2152 01:43:28,767 --> 01:43:31,463 - I'm glad to see that you're still able to stand. 2153 01:43:31,603 --> 01:43:34,071 - And I told him that somebody here would listen, 2154 01:43:34,206 --> 01:43:36,572 somebody here would... would... 2155 01:43:36,708 --> 01:43:40,576 would take the request seriously. Not just a PR person, 2156 01:43:40,712 --> 01:43:42,577 but somebody who has some authority and can answer 2157 01:43:42,714 --> 01:43:45,148 some of the questions that they want answered. 2158 01:43:45,283 --> 01:43:47,148 - K-Mart does care about this, 2159 01:43:47,285 --> 01:43:49,150 but I can't go any further right now. 2160 01:43:49,287 --> 01:43:51,152 So until I make a call, um, 2161 01:43:51,289 --> 01:43:53,780 I'm gonna go back to the office 2162 01:43:53,925 --> 01:43:56,450 and see if there's anyone in merchandising... 2163 01:43:56,595 --> 01:43:59,894 - Mary went back upstairs. And two hours later, 2164 01:44:00,031 --> 01:44:02,898 she brought down this guy whose job it is to buy the bullets 2165 01:44:03,034 --> 01:44:04,399 for K-Mart. 2166 01:44:04,536 --> 01:44:07,096 - Good. Stay out of trouble. - Yes. 2167 01:44:07,239 --> 01:44:09,400 - We're not the ones in trouble, guys. 2168 01:44:09,541 --> 01:44:11,600 Mark thought he'd show him his bullet wounds. 2169 01:44:11,743 --> 01:44:13,540 Those are his bullet holes. - Hm. 2170 01:44:13,678 --> 01:44:15,543 - From your bullets. 2171 01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:18,308 That's where the K-Mart bullets went in. 2172 01:44:18,450 --> 01:44:20,315 - Well, take care. 2173 01:44:20,452 --> 01:44:23,046 - Is anybody else gonna come down? 2174 01:44:23,188 --> 01:44:25,053 Is anybody else gonna come down? Is that it? 2175 01:44:25,190 --> 01:44:27,420 - I'll check. - Okay, thank you. 2176 01:44:27,559 --> 01:44:30,050 We waited around a couple more hours 2177 01:44:30,195 --> 01:44:32,322 but no one else came down. 2178 01:44:32,464 --> 01:44:35,433 As we left the building, Mark came up with an idea. 2179 01:44:35,567 --> 01:44:37,432 He suggested that we go 2180 01:44:37,569 --> 01:44:42,336 to the nearest K-Mart and buy out all their bullets. 2181 01:44:42,474 --> 01:44:45,272 - Just take as many of those as you can. 2182 01:44:45,410 --> 01:44:47,776 - Yeah, you can come around here and look. 2183 01:44:47,912 --> 01:44:50,506 - What else do we have over here? 2184 01:44:50,649 --> 01:44:53,516 You got 357. Sure, I'll take 'em all, take everything you got. 2185 01:44:53,652 --> 01:44:56,086 - So you're 17? You're what? - Sixteen. 2186 01:44:56,221 --> 01:44:57,586 - Wait. 2187 01:44:57,722 --> 01:44:59,587 - Oh, shit! 2188 01:44:59,724 --> 01:45:02,022 - Oh, my God... 2189 01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,095 - Mark pretty much cleaned them out of their ammunition. 2190 01:45:05,230 --> 01:45:08,461 And the next day, we decided to go back to K-Mart headquarters 2191 01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:10,625 with all the bullets. This time, 2192 01:45:10,802 --> 01:45:12,292 we brought the press. 2193 01:45:12,504 --> 01:45:13,835 - Our local first coverage of south-eastern Michigan 2194 01:45:14,005 --> 01:45:15,529 continues now with all-new stories. 2195 01:45:18,443 --> 01:45:20,468 - Coming up here on our six-o'clock report, 2196 01:45:20,612 --> 01:45:22,341 a warning to everyone this summer to watch out for snakes. 2197 01:45:22,447 --> 01:45:25,416 You'll hear from a mom who was bitten by a rattlesnake. 2198 01:45:25,550 --> 01:45:27,415 - And also, students who survived the Columbine massacre 2199 01:45:27,552 --> 01:45:31,044 are in town. They are very angry with K-Mart. 2200 01:45:31,189 --> 01:45:34,158 - We're here to see Chuck Conaway, the chairman of K-Mart. 2201 01:45:34,292 --> 01:45:36,055 - How you doing, sir? It's always a pleasure. 2202 01:45:36,194 --> 01:45:39,561 Okay, uh... 2203 01:45:39,698 --> 01:45:42,599 They would like to speak to Mr. Conaway. 2204 01:45:42,734 --> 01:45:46,500 - Here's the nine-millimetres. 2205 01:45:46,638 --> 01:45:49,163 These are the bullets that are in both Richard 2206 01:45:49,307 --> 01:45:51,605 and in Mark's body right now. 2207 01:45:59,150 --> 01:46:00,174 - Move your group outside. 2208 01:46:00,318 --> 01:46:02,218 I'll have somebody here in five minutes. 2209 01:46:02,354 --> 01:46:03,878 - Do me a favour, don't block the door. 2210 01:46:04,022 --> 01:46:05,546 Just off to the side, if you would. 2211 01:46:05,690 --> 01:46:07,248 - Will go outside and somebody will come out. 2212 01:46:07,392 --> 01:46:08,450 - My name's Laurie McTavish. 2213 01:46:08,593 --> 01:46:11,153 I'm the Vice-president of Communications for K-Mart. 2214 01:46:11,296 --> 01:46:14,527 I'm happy to deliver a statement on behalf of the company. 2215 01:46:14,666 --> 01:46:18,033 What happened in Columbine, Colorado, was truly tragic 2216 01:46:18,169 --> 01:46:20,034 and touched every American. 2217 01:46:20,171 --> 01:46:22,537 We're sorry for the... 2218 01:46:22,674 --> 01:46:24,733 disadvantage to this young man. 2219 01:46:24,876 --> 01:46:27,538 K-Mart is phasing out the sale of handgun ammunition. 2220 01:46:27,679 --> 01:46:30,978 The business plan calls for this to be complete 2221 01:46:31,116 --> 01:46:35,052 in the continental U.S. within the next 90 days. 2222 01:46:35,186 --> 01:46:36,551 - Wow! Wow! 2223 01:46:36,688 --> 01:46:38,553 - K-Mart representatives met with Mr. Moore 2224 01:46:38,690 --> 01:46:41,056 and the students from Columbine, Colorado, yesterday, 2225 01:46:41,192 --> 01:46:44,059 and listened to their concerns about the product 2226 01:46:44,195 --> 01:46:46,060 carried in K-Mart stores. 2227 01:46:46,197 --> 01:46:49,064 The company committed, at the end of that meeting, 2228 01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:52,931 that K-Mart would have an answer for them within a week's time. 2229 01:46:53,071 --> 01:46:55,938 - Well, the first thing we want to do is thank you 2230 01:46:56,074 --> 01:46:59,566 for committing to no longer selling handgun ammunition 2231 01:46:59,711 --> 01:47:01,576 in your stores. And within 90 days-- 2232 01:47:01,713 --> 01:47:04,079 - The process will be phased out within 90 days. 2233 01:47:04,215 --> 01:47:06,581 - And after 90 days, there will be no more selling 2234 01:47:06,718 --> 01:47:09,585 of ammunition that can go into handguns or assault weapons. 2235 01:47:09,721 --> 01:47:11,916 - Firearm ammunition, will be... We will not sell it, 2236 01:47:12,056 --> 01:47:13,921 after 90 days, in our stores. 2237 01:47:14,058 --> 01:47:16,856 - We greatly appreciate that. - Thank you. 2238 01:47:16,995 --> 01:47:19,054 - Thank you very much. Thank you. That's very brave. 2239 01:47:22,167 --> 01:47:23,828 Thank you. Wow! 2240 01:47:23,968 --> 01:47:27,199 That blows my mind. That's more than what we asked for. 2241 01:47:27,338 --> 01:47:30,034 - It's remarkable. - Yeah. Well, like I told you-- 2242 01:47:30,175 --> 01:47:32,040 - I didn't think-- - Did you think? 2243 01:47:32,177 --> 01:47:34,042 - No! - We're like, uh... 2244 01:47:34,179 --> 01:47:38,275 We're just getting ready to... We're going to the airport. 2245 01:47:38,416 --> 01:47:41,044 The kids from Columbine had scored an overwhelming victory 2246 01:47:41,186 --> 01:47:43,051 against K-Mart and it inspired me 2247 01:47:43,188 --> 01:47:47,284 to do something that I knew I had to do. 2248 01:47:47,425 --> 01:47:49,985 All I needed... was a star map. 2249 01:48:10,715 --> 01:48:12,512 - Hello? - Mr. Heston? 2250 01:48:12,650 --> 01:48:14,515 - Yeah. - This is Michael Moore. 2251 01:48:14,652 --> 01:48:16,017 - Yes. - The film-maker? 2252 01:48:16,154 --> 01:48:18,019 - Yes, of course. - Yes. How you doing? 2253 01:48:18,156 --> 01:48:19,521 - Fine, thank you. 2254 01:48:19,657 --> 01:48:22,524 - Listen, I was wondering if maybe I could talk to you. 2255 01:48:22,660 --> 01:48:26,357 We're making a documentary about the whole gun issue. 2256 01:48:26,498 --> 01:48:28,363 And I'm a member of the NRA. 2257 01:48:28,500 --> 01:48:31,025 I thought maybe we could talk a little bit about-- 2258 01:48:31,169 --> 01:48:33,034 - Tell you what, let me look at my calendar. 2259 01:48:33,171 --> 01:48:35,537 I may be able to give you some time tomorrow. 2260 01:48:35,673 --> 01:48:38,540 I have some people here now. - Okay, well, how can I-- 2261 01:48:38,676 --> 01:48:40,041 Pardon me? - Hold the phone. 2262 01:48:40,178 --> 01:48:41,770 - Okay, thank you. - Okay. 2263 01:48:41,913 --> 01:48:44,541 I can give you a little time tomorrow morning. 2264 01:48:44,682 --> 01:48:46,547 I think that's Thursday. - Yes. 2265 01:48:46,684 --> 01:48:49,050 - Let's say 8:30. - Eight-thirty in the morning? 2266 01:48:49,187 --> 01:48:51,052 - Yeah. Okay? - Okay. And just come here? 2267 01:48:51,189 --> 01:48:53,851 - Yes. - Okay, good. 2268 01:48:57,161 --> 01:48:59,061 - Hello? 2269 01:48:59,197 --> 01:49:01,563 - Hi. It's Michael Moore here to see Charlton Heston. 2270 01:49:01,699 --> 01:49:03,599 - Okay. 2271 01:49:23,221 --> 01:49:25,621 - Hi. Good morning. 2272 01:49:30,728 --> 01:49:33,094 How are you? - Fine. 2273 01:49:33,231 --> 01:49:35,495 - Thank you very much for agreeing to see me. 2274 01:49:43,741 --> 01:49:46,107 He took me out to his pool-and-tennis house 2275 01:49:46,244 --> 01:49:48,109 so we could have a chat. 2276 01:49:48,246 --> 01:49:51,181 I told him that I was a lifetime member of the NRA 2277 01:49:51,316 --> 01:49:53,443 and showed him my membership card. 2278 01:49:53,585 --> 01:49:55,382 - Good for you. Well done. 2279 01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,385 - I assume you have guns in the house here? 2280 01:49:57,522 --> 01:50:00,616 - Indeed I do. Bad guys take notice! 2281 01:50:00,758 --> 01:50:02,623 - So you have them for protection? 2282 01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:04,625 - Yeah. Sure. - Have you ever been 2283 01:50:04,762 --> 01:50:06,627 a victim of crime? - No. No. 2284 01:50:06,764 --> 01:50:10,530 - Never been assaulted or...? - No. 2285 01:50:10,668 --> 01:50:13,466 - No violence toward you, but you have guns in the house. 2286 01:50:13,605 --> 01:50:15,573 - Loaded. - They're loaded? 2287 01:50:15,707 --> 01:50:18,073 - Well, if you really needed a weapon for self-defence, 2288 01:50:18,209 --> 01:50:20,074 you need it loaded. - Okay, but why... 2289 01:50:20,211 --> 01:50:22,076 why do you need it for self-defence? Because-- 2290 01:50:22,213 --> 01:50:24,078 - I don't. - Yeah, you've never been 2291 01:50:24,215 --> 01:50:26,080 a victim of crime, you haven't been assaulted. 2292 01:50:26,217 --> 01:50:28,082 - No, that's true. - You haven't been, you know... 2293 01:50:28,219 --> 01:50:31,586 Why would you... So why not... Why don't you unload the gun? 2294 01:50:31,723 --> 01:50:35,090 - Because the second amendment gives me the right 2295 01:50:35,226 --> 01:50:37,091 to have it loaded. - I agree. 2296 01:50:37,228 --> 01:50:39,594 I totally agree with that. I'm just saying... I mean, 2297 01:50:39,731 --> 01:50:41,096 the second amendment gives me-- 2298 01:50:41,232 --> 01:50:43,097 - Let's say it's a comfort factor. 2299 01:50:43,234 --> 01:50:46,101 - It gives you comfort to know that there's a loaded gun. 2300 01:50:46,237 --> 01:50:47,602 - Yeah. 2301 01:50:47,739 --> 01:50:50,606 - Comfort meaning that it allows you to relax and feel safe? 2302 01:50:50,742 --> 01:50:52,607 - Not worry about it. - Not worry, not be afraid. 2303 01:50:52,744 --> 01:50:54,541 - And I'm not really, but, uh... 2304 01:50:54,679 --> 01:50:59,116 I'm exercising one of the rights passed on down to me 2305 01:50:59,250 --> 01:51:02,117 from those wise, old, dead white guys that invented this country. 2306 01:51:02,253 --> 01:51:05,222 If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. 2307 01:51:05,356 --> 01:51:07,017 - But you could still exercise the right, 2308 01:51:07,158 --> 01:51:09,592 just by having a gun unloaded and locked away somewhere. 2309 01:51:09,727 --> 01:51:10,887 - I choose to have it. 2310 01:51:11,029 --> 01:51:13,554 - What sort of strikes me as interesting is that, 2311 01:51:13,698 --> 01:51:16,565 in other countries, where they don't have the murder rate, 2312 01:51:16,701 --> 01:51:18,566 the gun-murder rate that we have, that, uh... 2313 01:51:18,703 --> 01:51:20,568 many people say, 2314 01:51:20,705 --> 01:51:22,570 "Well, that's because they don't have guns around. 2315 01:51:22,707 --> 01:51:25,574 It's hard to get a gun in Britain or Germany or whatever." 2316 01:51:25,710 --> 01:51:29,578 But we went to Canada and there's seven million guns 2317 01:51:29,714 --> 01:51:31,705 in 10-million homes. - There won't be very long. 2318 01:51:31,849 --> 01:51:33,373 - But hear me out, though. - Okay. 2319 01:51:33,518 --> 01:51:35,076 - Canada is a nation of hunters, 2320 01:51:35,219 --> 01:51:37,084 millions of guns, 2321 01:51:37,221 --> 01:51:40,088 and yet, they had just a few murders last year. 2322 01:51:40,224 --> 01:51:42,089 That's it. A country of 30-million people. 2323 01:51:42,226 --> 01:51:45,093 Now, why - here's my question - why is it that... 2324 01:51:45,229 --> 01:51:47,220 that they've got all these guns laying around, 2325 01:51:47,365 --> 01:51:49,230 yet they don't kill each other 2326 01:51:49,367 --> 01:51:51,232 at the level that we kill each other? 2327 01:51:51,369 --> 01:51:53,599 - I think American history is... 2328 01:51:53,738 --> 01:51:56,104 uh... has a lot of blood 2329 01:51:56,240 --> 01:51:58,105 on its hands. - And Germany history doesn't? 2330 01:51:58,242 --> 01:52:00,107 - No. - And British history? 2331 01:52:00,244 --> 01:52:02,610 - I don't think as much. - Oh, are you... 2332 01:52:02,747 --> 01:52:05,113 Germans don't have as much, blood on their hands? 2333 01:52:05,249 --> 01:52:07,615 - Uh, they do, yes. - The Brits, they ruled the world 2334 01:52:07,752 --> 01:52:10,118 for 300 years at the barrel of a gun. 2335 01:52:10,254 --> 01:52:13,553 They're all violent people. They have bad guys, they have crime, 2336 01:52:13,691 --> 01:52:16,057 they have lots of guns-- 2337 01:52:16,194 --> 01:52:20,062 - Well, it's an interesting point, which can be explored 2338 01:52:20,198 --> 01:52:23,565 and you're good to explore it at great lengths, 2339 01:52:23,701 --> 01:52:26,568 but I think that's about all I have to say on it. 2340 01:52:26,704 --> 01:52:29,571 - You don't have any opinion, though, as to why that is, 2341 01:52:29,707 --> 01:52:31,572 that we are the unique country, the only country, 2342 01:52:31,709 --> 01:52:34,576 that does this, that kills each other on this level, with guns? 2343 01:52:34,712 --> 01:52:38,580 - Well, we have, probably, more mixed ethnicity 2344 01:52:38,716 --> 01:52:42,083 than other countries, some other countries. 2345 01:52:42,220 --> 01:52:44,085 - You think it's an ethnic thing? 2346 01:52:44,222 --> 01:52:46,087 - No, I don't. It's... 2347 01:52:46,224 --> 01:52:48,089 I wouldn't go so far as to say that. 2348 01:52:48,226 --> 01:52:51,593 We had enough problems with civil rights in the beginning. 2349 01:52:51,729 --> 01:52:55,597 It's... But, uh, I have no answer for that. 2350 01:52:55,733 --> 01:52:58,099 - What do you mean, you think it's a mixed ethnicity? 2351 01:52:58,236 --> 01:53:00,101 I don't understand. 2352 01:53:00,238 --> 01:53:02,103 - You said, "How is it that..." - That we're unique. 2353 01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:06,108 - "So many Americans kill each other?" 2354 01:53:06,244 --> 01:53:08,508 I don't know that that's true, but, uh... 2355 01:53:08,646 --> 01:53:10,011 - Well, no, you know that. 2356 01:53:10,148 --> 01:53:13,049 We know we have the highest murder rate with guns. 2357 01:53:13,184 --> 01:53:15,049 It's way higher than any other country. 2358 01:53:15,186 --> 01:53:18,553 - The only answer I can give you is the one I already gave you. 2359 01:53:18,689 --> 01:53:21,556 - Which is? - Which is that we have, uh... 2360 01:53:21,692 --> 01:53:24,559 - Historically-- - ...a history of violence. 2361 01:53:24,695 --> 01:53:28,062 Perhaps more than most countries. Not more than Russia, 2362 01:53:28,199 --> 01:53:31,066 not more than Japan or China-- - Not more than Germany. 2363 01:53:31,202 --> 01:53:35,696 - Not more than Germany, but certainly more than Canada. 2364 01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:38,570 - I come from Flint, Michigan, and last year, 2365 01:53:38,709 --> 01:53:41,576 a little six-year-old boy took a gun into a classroom 2366 01:53:41,712 --> 01:53:44,681 and shot and killed a six-year-old girl. And, uh... 2367 01:53:44,816 --> 01:53:47,011 it was really a tragic thing-- 2368 01:53:47,151 --> 01:53:50,120 - This was a kid, though. - A six-year-old, yeah. 2369 01:53:50,254 --> 01:53:51,687 Did you hear about this? 2370 01:53:51,823 --> 01:53:54,485 A six-year-old shooting a six-year-old? 2371 01:53:54,625 --> 01:53:56,058 - Yeah. - Well, here's my question. 2372 01:53:56,194 --> 01:53:57,092 After that happened, 2373 01:53:57,228 --> 01:53:59,093 you came to Flint and held a big rally. 2374 01:53:59,230 --> 01:54:00,595 - Mm-hm. 2375 01:54:00,731 --> 01:54:03,097 - And, you know, I just-- 2376 01:54:03,234 --> 01:54:05,600 - So did the vice-president. 2377 01:54:05,736 --> 01:54:08,603 - Yeah, but did you feel it was being at all insensitive 2378 01:54:08,739 --> 01:54:11,105 to the fact that this community had just gone through-- 2379 01:54:11,242 --> 01:54:14,040 - Actually, I wasn't aware of that at the time we came. 2380 01:54:14,178 --> 01:54:17,545 We came and did an early-morning, uh... rally, 2381 01:54:17,682 --> 01:54:19,547 then went on to wherever we were going. 2382 01:54:19,684 --> 01:54:22,551 - You didn't know at the time, that this killing had happened? 2383 01:54:22,687 --> 01:54:24,552 - No. - Had you known, would you have-- 2384 01:54:24,689 --> 01:54:26,554 - Would I have cancelled the... uh... 2385 01:54:26,691 --> 01:54:28,556 - Yeah. - I don't... 2386 01:54:28,693 --> 01:54:30,058 Hard to say. 2387 01:54:30,194 --> 01:54:32,059 - It wasn't like it was already planned. 2388 01:54:32,196 --> 01:54:34,061 I mean, the choice to come there was made 2389 01:54:34,198 --> 01:54:36,063 after this horrible killing took place. 2390 01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:37,565 - Yeah. Mm-hm. 2391 01:54:37,702 --> 01:54:40,569 - You know, had you know that, would you have come? 2392 01:54:40,705 --> 01:54:43,572 - I don't know. I have no idea. 2393 01:54:43,708 --> 01:54:45,699 - Maybe not. Maybe not. - Okay. Thank you. 2394 01:54:45,843 --> 01:54:49,074 - You think you'd like to just maybe apologize to the people 2395 01:54:49,213 --> 01:54:52,080 in Flint for coming and doing that at that time, or...? 2396 01:54:52,216 --> 01:54:54,081 - You want me to apologize... 2397 01:54:54,218 --> 01:54:56,083 me, apologize to the people in Flint? 2398 01:54:56,220 --> 01:54:58,120 - Or the people in Columbine 2399 01:54:58,256 --> 01:55:00,588 for coming after their horrible tragedy. 2400 01:55:00,725 --> 01:55:03,091 Why do you go to the places after they have 2401 01:55:03,227 --> 01:55:05,593 these horrible tragedies? I'm a member of your group here-- 2402 01:55:05,730 --> 01:55:08,597 - Well, I'm afraid we don't agree on... on that. 2403 01:55:08,733 --> 01:55:11,099 - You think it's okay to just come and show up 2404 01:55:11,235 --> 01:55:13,533 at these events. - No. 2405 01:55:13,671 --> 01:55:15,571 - You don't think it's okay? 2406 01:55:26,584 --> 01:55:29,280 Mr. Heston, just one more thing. 2407 01:55:29,420 --> 01:55:31,285 This is who she is - 2408 01:55:31,422 --> 01:55:34,016 or was. This is her. 2409 01:55:34,158 --> 01:55:36,023 Mr. Heston, please don't leave. 2410 01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:38,856 Mr. Heston, please, take a look at her. 2411 01:55:38,996 --> 01:55:41,590 This is the girl. 2412 01:56:32,650 --> 01:56:36,051 I left the Heston estate atop Beverly Hills 2413 01:56:36,187 --> 01:56:38,155 and walked back into the real world, 2414 01:56:38,289 --> 01:56:41,520 an America living and breathing in fear... 2415 01:56:41,659 --> 01:56:43,559 In your mind, you imagine somebody 2416 01:56:43,694 --> 01:56:46,561 who might break into your house, to harm you or your family. 2417 01:56:46,697 --> 01:56:50,064 What does that person look like? 2418 01:56:50,201 --> 01:56:53,034 - You. Her. Him. The camera guy, anybody. 2419 01:56:53,170 --> 01:56:55,536 Could be a gun in the camera, I don't know. 2420 01:56:55,673 --> 01:56:58,335 - Where gun sales were now at an all-time high... 2421 01:56:58,476 --> 01:57:01,570 - Can shoot as fast as Wesson semi-automatic. 2422 01:57:01,712 --> 01:57:03,680 - And where, in the end, 2423 01:57:03,814 --> 01:57:05,873 it all comes back to bowling 2424 01:57:06,017 --> 01:57:07,882 for Columbine. 2425 01:57:08,019 --> 01:57:10,544 - Three bowling-alley employees shot to death Sunday night 2426 01:57:10,688 --> 01:57:12,087 at the AMF Broadway Lanes. 2427 01:57:12,223 --> 01:57:15,021 - There's nothing I really know. I really don't know anything. 2428 01:57:15,159 --> 01:57:17,684 - Just that three people died. - Right. 2429 01:57:17,828 --> 01:57:19,352 - In Littleton, in a bowling alley. 2430 01:57:19,497 --> 01:57:21,055 I'm sorry. 2431 01:57:23,200 --> 01:57:26,465 Yes, it was a glorious time to be an American. 2432 01:57:32,343 --> 01:57:36,040 "I see trees of green 2433 01:57:36,180 --> 01:57:38,546 "Red roses too 2434 01:57:38,682 --> 01:57:41,549 "I see them bloom 2435 01:57:41,685 --> 01:57:43,550 "For me and you 2436 01:57:43,687 --> 01:57:47,555 "And I think to myself 2437 01:57:47,691 --> 01:57:51,092 "What a wonderful world 2438 01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:58,566 "I see skies of blue 2439 01:57:58,702 --> 01:58:01,569 "And clouds of white 2440 01:58:01,705 --> 01:58:04,071 "The bright sunny day 2441 01:58:04,208 --> 01:58:06,574 "The dark sacred night 2442 01:58:06,710 --> 01:58:10,578 "And I think to myself 2443 01:58:10,714 --> 01:58:14,047 "What a wonderful world 2444 01:58:18,656 --> 01:58:20,521 "The colours of the rainbow 2445 01:58:20,658 --> 01:58:24,025 "All so pretty in the sky 2446 01:58:24,161 --> 01:58:26,527 "Are also on the faces 2447 01:58:26,664 --> 01:58:29,030 "Of the people walking by 2448 01:58:29,166 --> 01:58:32,033 "I see friends shakin' hands 2449 01:58:32,169 --> 01:58:35,536 "Sayin' How do you do 2450 01:58:35,673 --> 01:58:38,540 "They're really saying 2451 01:58:38,676 --> 01:58:40,541 "I love you 2452 01:58:40,678 --> 01:58:44,546 "I see babies cryin' 2453 01:58:44,682 --> 01:58:47,048 "I watch them grow 2454 01:58:47,184 --> 01:58:49,049 "They'll learn much more 2455 01:58:49,186 --> 01:58:52,053 "Than I'll ever know 2456 01:58:52,189 --> 01:58:56,057 "And I think to myself 2457 01:58:56,193 --> 01:58:59,594 "What a wonderful world 2458 01:59:03,701 --> 01:59:07,569 "And I think to myself 2459 01:59:07,705 --> 01:59:11,106 "What a wonderful world... 2460 01:59:20,718 --> 01:59:24,620 "And I say to myself 2461 01:59:28,726 --> 01:59:32,594 "What a wonderful 2462 01:59:32,730 --> 01:59:35,358 "World"