﻿1
People deserve to know the whole story.
I came back from the dead.
I felt like I owed humanity something.
I wanted to bring gay marriage to Utah.
It was the norm.
Gay marriage was never gonna come to Utah.
General attitude was that the Mormon Church
was never gonna allow this in Utah.
Well, let's not go to the Mormon Church with this.
We have the federal laws, and we have the Constitution.
They were afraid to stand up to the big giant.
♪ Gave proof through the night ♪
♪ That our flag was still there ♪
♪ O say, does that star-spangled ♪
♪ Banner yet wave ♪
♪ O'er the land of the free ♪
♪ And the home ♪
♪ Of the brave ♪
We thank you for being here this evening,
and thank you for taking a stand for marriage,
standing with Amendment 3.
Each of us knows that this is a difficult and sensitive issue,
but we can show the world that Utah can be for marriage
without being against anyone.
Okay, I'm sorry. I'm just too excited
to let this opportunity pass.
I just wanna tell the room that Brian Brown,
the president of the national organization
has just entered the room.
He has done more for marriage in the United States
than anyone else.
To the few pessimists out there
that think that this is a losing cause,
the immortal Don Quixote showed us the results.
♪♪
♪ To dream the impossible dream ♪
♪ Fight the unbeatable foe ♪
I think we should go down and see if we can catch him.
Mr. Brown.
- Hi, how are you? - Hi, good.
I just wanted to introduce myself and welcome you to Utah.
I'm Mark Lawrence.
I'm the director of Restore Our Humanity.
I brought the lawsuit that brought down Amendment 3.
We're saying marriage is not only about a man and a woman.
Marriage can be expanded to include everybody.
Every loving couple who is together.
Why not four, five, or six then?
- That's not my argument. - But why not?
I don't care. It has nothing to do with my life.
- Well, I do care. - Why?
The binary structure of marriage
is in the best interest of children in society.
It's important that children are connected
with their mothers and fathers.
But children don't have anything to do with this.
This has nothing to do with children.
Gay people have kids 'cause they want kids,
not because they're married.
If marriage has a meaning,
then you take that meaning and you basically say
it applies to everything.
By expanding it in the way you're claiming,
you no longer have any central meaning for it anymore.
No, no, no, no.
Again, we can agree to disagree.
- Thank you for approaching me. - Thank you very much.
I've been looking forward to meeting you for a long time.
Good luck. Thank you, sir, appreciate it.
That is a lifelong ambition, and I finally met him.
I'm ready to die now.
♪ Still strove with his last ounce of courage ♪
♪ To reach ♪
♪ The unreachable ♪
♪ Star ♪
My parents pretty much live at the poverty level.
And I just made a decision one day
that I should probably just move in with them for a while,
but that was before my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
So it just got to a point where I couldn't leave,
and I'm still here.
Well, I'm very proud of the work that you've been doing,
and I don't know how you stay on top of it
and help with your dad.
I wouldn't have anything else to do.
- Oh, sure. - I know you are,
but I have a place to go and vent,
so that's when I come home and hide down in the basement,
and I'm okay.
- Your dad supports you too. - I know.
It was a big shock to both of us in the beginning
when you came out of the closet.
But I do not understand how parents
can kick a child out of their home
when they find out that they're homosexual or...
- It's just unbelievable. - It happens every day.
♪♪
I grew up in farm community in Utah.
All my friends I was associated with
were all, of course, with the Mormon Church.
You could make one statement or have one thought,
and a friend would say, "Hey, you can't think like that.
Don't do that. You'll go to hell.
You're gonna make God mad at you."
Crazy stuff.
My best friend...
The guys would go to his house to look at his dad's Playboy.
Well, I wasn't interested in it,
so my job was to stand out front
and watch for his mom to come home
and ring the doorbell.
I wasn't interested.
That's when I knew.
I moved to San Francisco in the early '80s
when AIDS was at its peak.
The response I was getting from people here,
"Why are you going there? You'll get AIDS."
I never had any real relationships there.
I was willing to be risky about going out,
going to bars and trying to pick up tricks
and meet strangers and that kinda stuff.
That was okay. That kinda risky behavior's fine
'cause that's part of being gay.
It was a lot easier to try to pick up a trick
and not have to become emotionally involved
or connected to anybody.
It was also part of fighting AIDS.
Screw AIDS. I'm gonna go out and have sex
whether you like it or not.
It was part of the militant thing that we all went through.
For some stupid reason, I thought I had to get tested,
see what my HIV status is, and I did.
And I was positive, and I did not expect that.
I did not know that.
Watched people die in San Francisco.
I watched ACT UP. I watched.
I just stood off at the sidelines though.
I didn't do anything. I just watched.
I would look at that and go, "Why can't I do that?
Why am I not out there marching with them?"
Those people have got a lot of guts,
and they have a lot of courage, and maybe I was afraid.
But it would've given me a hell of a lot more meaning
if I had known I could be down there
marching with those people and sticking with them,
instead of reading about it in the paper.
Utah's political landscape is somewhat unique
in that one denomination dominates the culture.
Based on what you have seen and experienced,
is Utah a democracy or a theocracy?
Clearly a democracy.
We're nowhere close to being a theocracy.
But I do have issues with how the Mormon Church
lobbies the legislature.
All of Republican leadership,
almost all our members of the Mormon Church
they are able to whisper into the ears
of a few members of Republican leadership.
Then bills magically go through without objection,
or they magically die,
and there's not a lot of talk about it.
Really, to appreciate the significance
of overturning a same-sex marriage ban in Utah,
you have to understand that Mormon history,
doctrine, and culture permeate every aspect
of public policy and public opinion.
One way we can see that is in the twice-yearly conferences
that the Church holds in Salt Lake City.
Those draw tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints
who come to hear words of wisdom
and direction from their church leaders.
We believe the organization and government of heaven
will be built around families and extended families.
It is because of our beliefs
that marriage and families are eternal,
that we, as a Church, want to be leaders
and participate in worldwide movements that strengthen them.
We want to help these people to strengthen them,
to assist them with their problems
and to help them with their difficulties.
But we cannot stand idle
if they indulge in immoral activity,
if they try to uphold and defend and live
in a so-called same-sex marriage situation.
We also need politicians, policymakers, and officials
to increase their attention to what is best for children,
in contrast to the selfish interest of voters
and vocal advocates of adult interests.
Mormonism is very different from Protestantism,
and part of that has to do with the role of leaders.
What makes the difference is the way the leaders, or oracles,
leaders of the voice of God or the divine...
It's tough to understand the Church's motivations,
unless you've been Mormon or maybe Scientologist,
one of these all-consuming, all-in religions.
There is no part of the country where 70%
or 67% of the population belongs to a single faith,
so the Church is a big employer.
It also owns property.
It may be the largest single landowner in the area.
Everybody here talks about religion all the time.
That means they talk about the Church,
and there's no doubt about which Church it is.
Nothing's about to happen at the Capital
that the Church doesn't 100% endorse.
It absolutely will get its way on LGBT issues,
on marriage issues.
Equal rights!
From a PR perspective, it's been a tough couple years
for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Recently, there have been angry protests
outside Mormon temples
over the Church's support of Proposition 8.
Yours a Church that has experienced
extraordinary persecution and discrimination.
Children killed, homes burned, women raped,
entire populations pushed across the Great Plains.
Why would you want to tell another group of people
what they can't do by law?
We were for marriage between a man and a woman.
But gays and lesbians are saying,
"We, too, are a persecuted group.
We, too, deserve our rights under the law."
But what I'm saying,
this isn't because it's directed at another group.
It's for the protection
of a 5,000-year history of marriage
being between a man and a woman.
One of the doctrines, which is unique in Mormonism,
is that marriage is for eternity.
That is one of the most satisfying
and, we think, beautiful doctrines.
Before you even had a sense of your identity
or your attraction,
you were taught-- find a mate and have a family.
That is what God wants.
If I'm gay, and I'm not gonna get married,
then I'm a threat to the eternal family,
not only for me, but my parents think
I'm not gonna be part of their eternal family.
Inside sacred buildings called "temples,"
couples can be married not just until death do you part,
but for eternity,
so families can be together forever,
even after death.
Who made this possible? God did.
Why? God isn't just our creator.
He's our father. We are his children, his family.
That's the big picture, and we're all part of it.
It was around 2010 that I was diagnosed with cancer,
with lung cancer.
I went into chemotherapy
and just took a couple years off of my life,
and I came out of it different.
Felt like I've got this second chance now.
Let's do something.
I have a pile of regrets like this,
and some of the things I wish I had done, I didn't.
So the lawsuit actually started
from a discussion group on Facebook.
I said, "I am putting together a federal lawsuit
to overturn Utah's ban on gay marriage."
Then we started meeting in coffee shops
and started talking about it.
I contacted Mark on the comment board and said,
"I'm interested. When, where?"
We thought it was crazy,
and there was no way in hell it would happen,
except we were going to try.
None of us had PR experience.
None of us had experience in legislation,
in fundraising, certainly.
We just had will.
And I started contacting community leaders saying,
"Let's do this."
They couldn't get onboard with it,
and that really, really pissed me off.
I went to the ACLU and they said,
"You can't possibly be serious."
It was almost like he was going door-to-door
trying to find someone.
I think I sent out a whole bunch of emails one day,
and Magleby & Greenwood, Jim Magleby responded.
"Friday, February 8th, 2013, 3:55 p.m., from Mark Lawrence.
I represent an organization that is working
to challenge Utah's Amendment 3 in federal court.
We are now seeking a legal team.
Is this something that you would be interested in?"
And we responded, "Mr. Lawrence, I would be very interested
in our firm representing your group,
but cannot work pro bono.
If you'd like to meet with me and my partner Peggy Thompson,
please let us know."
That was the beginning.
I really had respect for him
for being someone who is not involved in any organization
nationally or locally, that had any power,
and had just decided on his own he was gonna do this.
I thought, "You know what? That takes a lotta chutzpah."
And he said, "I'm looking for lawyers
who can handle a really nasty fight with the state of Utah."
Then Jim, because he owns the firm,
and it's an economic decision,
asked the right question: "Who's gonna pay for this?"
You'd never guess it by looking at him,
but he is an eternal optimist,
and he said, "We'll get the gay community in Utah.
We'll even get donations nationwide
because we're going to do this."
"Oh, don't worry. I can raise--"
We estimated it'd be around a million dollars to do this.
He said, "Oh, I can raise this. There is no issue."
I'm thinking in my mind, "This guy has no connections
with anybody on Earth.
There is no way this guy's gonna raise any money."
And I think, "Do I care?"
I think no, I don't care because it's the right thing to do.
So I go, "Yeah, I'm sure that that can happen."
So we decided to take it on.
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪
♪ Happy birthday, dear Marcelino ♪
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪
♪ And many more ♪
Here's your seat.
So you're 13!
Yay!
I didn't really come out to my parents.
Someone outted me to my mother, and she called me.
Told me I was not allowed to bring any girlfriends home.
And I said, "Well, I'm sorry to hear that
because you aren't gonna be seeing me."
It was really a very dangerous time for lesbians and gay men.
You got beat up.
You got your car windows broken out.
Joe Redburn, who owned The Sun,
hired security to walk people from the bar to your car,
but still, people would go by and grab people off the street.
I met her at a dinner at her house.
We were out on the patio, and a baby bird flew out of the tree
and landed on my shoulder
and starting eating food off my plate,
and she came over,
and we played with this baby bird and fed it
and just started talking to each other.
In all candor, I was an asshole at that point in my life.
I was making a lot of money.
I had no obligations,
and I drove a 911 Porsche Cabriolet.
I thought I was the coolest thing walking,
but I was dispelled of it very quickly after I met Cindy.
I had to work on a project over the weekend,
and I had asked the senior lawyer's secretary to come in.
She is Marcelino's grandmother.
I had never met him.
He just turned three years old.
And I got out these little books,
and I read them to him, and he was just laughing.
About two weeks later, he came in with his mother,
kind of beat up,
and he saw me in the hall, and he grabbed me and said,
"Please take me home with you."
One day in the middle of the day,
I got a call from Marcelino's great grandmother.
She said, "Peggy, I am too old to be raising this child.
Can you he come live with you?"
We said of course.
Like with all my cases,
I believe in my clients, and I want to win.
But in this particular case,
it's very personal to me
because if I could accomplish this,
I could ask Cindy to marry me,
and I'd be able to adopt Marcelino.
Only Cindy had been able to adopt him.
I've been his mom since he first asked me to take him home.
If something happens to Cindy,
I would have no rights. None.
So I personally believe in this to the bottom of my heart.
Joseph?
Joseph.
This is my beloved son.
Hear him.
Joseph, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Behold.
I am the Lord of Glory.
At a future time, the complete truth of the Gospel
will be revealed to you.
After this vision, Joseph Smith founds the Mormon Church
in an upstate New York farming community in 1830.
And by all accounts, he is charismatic,
and he quickly develops a small, but loyal following.
What he sees is that his Church
and the Church he believes that Jesus Christ founded
is one and the same, and it had been lost.
But not only that, he even saw Jesus' project
in some ways was not really fulfilled.
And what he was doing was bringing back together
all of the things that had been lost.
And that included polygamy as a restoration
of an ancient practice that had been lost
and that was a key feature of what the heavens looked like.
This becomes a very secret practice by Smith
and some high-ranking men in the Church.
Whispers about plural marriage
and, in some cases, underage brides
begins to leak out into the society.
And this becomes a boiling point for Smith.
As the rumors started to spread,
he was framed as sex-crazed,
rather than been seen in the light he wanted to see himself,
as a prophet restoring a divine institution.
So as the Church grows,
so does the discomfort that outsiders are having
with Mormon teachings.
There were conflicts between
these different communities.
And Governor Boggs of Missouri
declared an extermination order on Mormons.
They appealed to the federal government for help,
who was not willing to rescue them.
Joseph Smith was taken to a jail.
A mob assembled outside.
They overpowered those who were inside
and killed Joseph and his brother.
This forces them to move west, hoping they can find a place
where they will be outside the reach of government.
They end up in the Utah territory,
which is just outside the boundaries of the United States.
Zion, they would call it,
where they can have the Church be the center of their life.
It's a theocracy, not a democracy.
They were defenders of religious freedom,
and they lost this battle against the federal government.
They took it all the way to the Supreme Court,
and the Supreme Court said,
"You do not have the religious freedom
to practice your religion as you believe it."
The federal government is not gonna allow Utah
to join the Union if they insist on keeping religion
at the center of public life and practicing polygamy.
Mormons decided they could no longer sustain
their practices of polygamy
without endless conflict with the federal government.
It finally came time
to make this decision about statehood.
Polygamy, as deeply ingrained as it was in Mormon culture,
was worth sacrificing to gain statehood.
That moment had a powerful impact
for future generations of Mormons
who believed that they could at anytime
be persecuted to such a degree
that they would have to flee and fear for their lives.
There is a huge persecution complex.
You could say it comes from the government,
forcing the Church to change practices on polygamy.
But I think it comes down to a doctrine of good and evil.
The more the Church is being persecuted and criticized,
the truer it is.
You've tried all of our products before, right?
Yeah.
I thought so.
And our last one is a garlic spread.
A tablespoon is about five cloves.
We use this the same way a condiment is used
on a burger or a sandwich.
- Having fun? - Yeah.
I was in a meeting.
That's where I met Derek and Moudi.
I said, "I am putting together a federal lawsuit
to overturn Utah's ban on gay marriage.
We need some plaintiffs."
At first, they didn't take me seriously.
Moudi's response was, "No.
I don't think we can do do something like that."
It was this man who was really determined,
and it was almost off-putting to me at first.
I said, "Why don't you think about it?
Just give it some thought."
Pfft! Utah? Yeah, right. Good luck with that.
So I started following up with them.
I would talk to them a little bit more.
Even though I wanted to be married,
I didn't take him seriously
or the idea of bringing marriage equality seriously to Utah.
About three months after we met him the first time,
he gave me a call, and he said,
"I have a couple of attorneys.
Would you and Moudi like to meet?"
It legitimized the concept to me
in a way that he was never capable of doing.
Because it is then that I felt comfortable, actually.
I felt as if I would have two people
that understand what they're doing.
And we realized that this would become...
a case centered on us and our story.
It really relied on our own desire to marry.
I have to this, but it wasn't Mark that was involved.
It wasn't a story about Mark,
which is not a story I was willing to buy into originally.
There was not this kink in the chain, if you will.
They were perfect 'cause they've been together for years.
They owned a business together, and they had so much at stake.
I just liked 'em. I thought they were great guys.
They were pretty.
Put 'em out there in the press.
They were both very, very smart, very well-spoken.
We came to the conclusion that it was the right thing to do,
and we were the right people to do it.
If it's not gonna be us, then who else would do it?
They came back, and we talked. They both said, "You know what?
We'll take the consequences."
And then Derek said, "I want my name to be the name."
I think I signed on as the bride at that time.
We're just English teacher geeks.
Sometimes we're little old ladies.
My dear friend.
We were sitting and talking about her day,
and she said, "Do you, really?"
"Would you consider joining in the case and suing the state
to overturn Amendment 3?"
And I said, "I don't know. I'll check on that."
Yes, we have to do this. I think this is great.
I'm glad someone thought of it.
Let's be a part of it.
We wanted another couple,
and Kody and Laurie came in and talked to us.
I just went, "Wow, this is it. This is our group."
I think I always wanted to make a difference,
but I used to joke that I liked living in Utah
because I could be a radical and not leave the sofa.
She walked me to work that Monday and texted me
and said, "Do you wanna be the bride or the groom?"
I said, "The bride, of course."
Ohh!
There was a major transition that happens after World War II.
Mormons start to think about same-sex sexual acts
as a psychological condition.
A new kind of person is emerging.
Homosexuality is, in fact, a mental illness,
which has reached epidemiological proportions.
The minister quoted is reported to have said,
"Two people of the same sex can express love
and deepen that love by sexual intercourse."
Those are ugly voices.
They are loud and raspy.
To the great Moses, these perversions
were an abomination and a defilement
worthy of death.
The idea that someone is gay
is an idea that Elder Kimball strongly rejected.
He believed that homosexuals who were telling this story
were perpetuating a satanic lie,
and he's trying to teach people
to train their minds through a set of practices,
like singing hymns, exercising.
So his program of self-mastery
is the cure to same-sex desires.
That's like playing in the rapids.
When you're in the whitewater, things can happen fast.
♪ So he sent me on my journey down the river ♪
♪ And he said he would always climb on me ♪
♪ He taught me the joy ♪
There is a falsehood that some are born
with an attraction to their own kind,
and that they can do nothing about it.
They are just that way.
And that is...
That is a malicious, destructive lie.
Elder Boyd K. Packer,
one of the highest-ranking leaders of the Church,
really takes on the mantle of Kimball
in combating homosexuality.
Now there are some men who entice young men
to join them in these immoral acts.
If you are ever approached
to participate in anything like that,
that is the time to vigorously resist.
There's this interesting moment when Elder Packer,
in his speech,
praises a missionary for assaulting his companion
when his companion made a sexual advance.
My response was, "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it."
It wouldn't be well for a general authority
to solve a problem in that way.
Now, I'm not recommending that course to you,
my young friends,
but I'm not omitting it.
You must--
You must protect yourselves.
We've witnessed a rapid and increasing public acceptance
of cohabitation without marriage
and same-sex marriage.
The corresponding media advocacy, education
and even occupational requirements
pose difficult challenges for Latter-day Saints.
Within a year of when Dallin Oaks became a member
of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles,
he wrote a lengthy memo reflective of his own background
as a justice in the Utah Supreme Court.
It became a playbook for how the Church should
and, in fact, did proceed to defend its position
against what he saw as a possibility, eventually,
of same-sex marriage coming to the forefront
of the gay rights movement.
He says there's a potential
for the normalization of homosexuality
that becomes so severe that the Church must speak up.
In 1990, three same-sex couples
put Hawaii's tolerance to the test
when they applied for marriage licenses.
We grew up realizing that marriage is the next progression
after you find somebody and fall in love with them.
That's the next thing you do is get married.
I wanted to marry Ninia early on in our relationship.
It's unfortunate that gay people can't do that.
They can't just run away and elope.
The lawsuit in Hawaii
represented the Church's entry
formally into the political arena
on the subject of same-sex marriage.
A male and a female walk in, and they're not married,
and they want a license, you give it to 'em.
A male and a male walk in and want a license,
you won't give it to 'em.
You are discriminating against them.
And this is where the shockwave began
that swept across the Pacific Ocean
and flooded the mainland from coast to coast.
This sets off alarm bells in Salt Lake City,
and the Church goes into full-response mode.
It starts to organize politically.
It starts to organize its teachings.
There's a real push for thinking
about heterosexuality and the family
and a new kind of mobilization
of anti-gay politics during this time period.
In the context of all this,
it issues a political document called
"The Family: A Proclamation to the World."
This document appeals to members of the Church,
but it also appeals to judges and legislatures.
I now take the opportunity of reading to you
this proclamation.
It became central to Mormon identity really quickly.
Missionaries began to hand out copies
of the proclamation on the family,
saying this is what we believe.
Members of the Church began to frame copies of it
and hang it on their wall.
It's really impossible to overestimate
the importance of this document in Mormon teaching.
We solemnly proclaim that marriage
between a man and a woman is ordained of God,
and the family is central to the Creator's plan
for the eternal destiny of these children.
This document doesn't mention homosexuality at all,
which is, in part, the genius.
"We further declare that God has commanded
that the sacred powers of procreation
are to be employed only between man and woman
lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
We call upon responsible citizens
and officers of government everywhere
to promote those measures
designed to maintain and strengthen the family
as the fundamental unit of society."
The conflict between Mormons
and gay rights activists,
both within and outside of the Church,
becomes the defining issue of modern Mormonism.
And so it's in this climate
that we see the predominantly Mormon Utah legislature
pass laws that ban gay marriage,
refuse to recognize same-sex unions
that are legal in other states,
and that then leads us to Amendment 3.
Tonight same-sex marriage in Utah is taking center stage.
Three couples are challenging the ban,
saying it's unconstitutional.
Having the ability to walk into a federal courtroom
in Salt Lake City, Utah,
with a real federal judge sitting behind the bench
and being able to argue
why the Constitution did not permit
a failure to recognize gays and lesbians as equal citizens
was something I never dreamed I'd see
in a courtroom in my life,
let alone me being the one that got to do it.
Peggy is standing there,
and Judge Shelby asked her a question to the effect of,
"If I rule on this, will I be the first court
to address these issues?"
Peggy, without missing a beat says,
"Yes, congratulations."
And the courtroom erupts into laughter.
I sat there and watched Peggy for an hour and a half
engaging with Judge Shelby.
He didn't take his eyes off her.
It was amazing. That's when I realized
what kind of an attorney she was.
She was an amazing woman. It was brilliant.
I just-- Wow. I was in awe.
Then we got to watch guys from the Attorney General's office
make asses out of themselves for 45 minutes.
They tried really hard to make this argument
without bringing in God and religion into it
'cause they knew they couldn't.
In a United States court, it's the culture of the state.
The states hired LDS people,
and they tried to make a secular argument out of it,
but it's not possible for them to do.
Judge Shelby-- and this, I think, was kind of him--
said he would let us know by January 7th.
That's why when December 20th happened,
nobody expected it.
For you folks who are just tuning in,
Amendment 3 of Utah's Constitution
has been declared unconstitutional.
So right now marriage licenses
are being handed out to same-sex couples.
Some marriages are actually being performed in Salt Lake.
I was at work.
About 2:00, we get an email from Peggy: "We won."
To file a case in March
and have a decision by December 20th of the same year,
it's never happened in my 31 years of practice.
We received a phone call that said,
"Did you hear the news?"
And they were like, "No, what's the news?"
They said, "You won."
I got in my car.
I drove to Cind-- I texted her. I said,
"We won, we won, we won. Will you marry me?
I'm on my way to your office to pick you up to get married."
She goes, "We won what?"
I go, "We won our case. We can get married."
And she goes, "Of course I'll marry you."
So I drive to her office, and I text, "I'm here, I'm here.
Come out, let's go."
She texted me back, "I'm a doctor.
I'm with patients. I cannot leave."
I go, "Have 'em come. They can be our witnesses."
It is an enormous day for Utah.
Not only for same-sex couples,
but it brings equality to the entire state.
Our case was very strong.
Our law firm, our legal team was brilliant.
They were passionate, and we told the truth.
Now pronounce you wife and wife.
I'm joined now by a couple who just got married 15 seconds ago.
You have been together several years now.
What does this mean for you?
It means that we're legally married
in the eyes of the state.
It means everything to us.
Laurie and I looked at each other, and we said,
"Let's do this," and so we did.
And it was...
Um, it was unexpected.
Then once I looked into her eyes,
and I said, "I do,"
and I got to be her wife,
then I really, really got it.
It was as sacred as anything.
And to have the entire courtyard erupt in cheers,
it was just fantastic.
Of all the pictures I've ever seen of me,
I love that picture 'cause I've never seen me happier.
We kept asking ourselves after the hearing
when are they going to file the motion to stay the ruling?
We expect it's coming. They've got some time.
We know the judge isn't gonna rule right away,
but there's a chance they might lose.
And when the decision came down, there was no stay.
Now, at the time the Utah Attorney General's office
was a train wreck.
They never bothered filing a stay,
which is a normal procedure in a court proceeding.
I guess they couldn't even possibly imagine
they were gonna lose this case.
So I drive back to the office and go in,
and Judge Shelby's office calls and said,
"Judge Shelby wants you and the state lawyer on the line."
"What's your question?"
He goes, "We don't understand your decision."
"What do you mean, you don't understand my decision?"
"There's nothing in there saying you're staying your decision,
and we understand people are getting married."
I said, "I understand that too, Your Honor."
He said, "You didn't file a motion
to ask me to stay my decision.
You tell me when you will file your motion for a stay,
and I'll immediately hold a hearing."
The lawyer for the state goes,
"I don't know what we're gonna do."
And Judge Shelby goes,
"I guess there's nothing I can do for you then. Good day."
What the state of Utah was asking Judge Shelby to do
was rule on a motion that they had never filed.
If there had been a national right-wing organization
in the case that litigated these things all the time,
I guarantee you they would've filed a motion for a stay.
It seems to me they would've had a pretty good argument.
But their argument was a whole lot worse
once hundreds, maybe thousands, of people had been married
because how do you unring that bell?
They missed the movement and took for granted
that their worldview was the worldview
of everyone within the confines of the state.
And because there's so little separation
between Church and State in Utah,
I'm sure that officials in the Attorney General's office
not only believed they were right,
but they just believed everyone else
would think they were right.
So we got our license, we went downstairs.
Mayor Becker was there, and he said,
"Peggy, can I perform the marriage ceremony?"
I said sure.
So Mayor Becker said to Marcelino,
"How do you feel about this?" after he performed the ceremony,
and he goes, "Wow. Wow.
Wow. My mom's been finally married!"
So...
The national media descends on the state of Utah,
and what do they see...
but hundreds of loving couples getting married.
All their life, "No, you're not good enough.
You cannot have this. You're second class.
There they were getting married. It was like an assembly line.
And then I looked around, and I realized all this time
we've been saying this isn't about kids.
Friend of mine says, "Do you know how many kids
are gonna wake up in the morning,
and their parents are married,
and their families are gonna be equal?"
Back in the corner, there were these two women--
later found out they'd been together for 18 years--
they were both standing there holding their marriage license,
just reading it line by line and crying.
And then you have the angry villagers
with their pitchforks and torches
down in Happy Valley screaming and ranting and raving.
These were people who were tied to the LDS Church.
These are Christians. These are religious people.
All they are down there is hate.
Full of hate and anger and rage,
trying to figure out how they're gonna fight
people who are... in love.
These organizations claim to be pro-family. They're not.
They're the worst you can be for families.
They're only pro-their-families as they define them.
Gayle Ruzika of the Utah Eagle Forum
lobbied heavily in favor of Amendment 3,
and says she and others will continue to fight
for traditional marriage.
Marriage is a state issue. It is not a federal issue.
A federal judge does not have the right to tell Utah
what we're going to do with our marriage laws.
BYU law professor Lynn Wardle
has published extensively for years
his arguments against same-sex marriage.
What is the effect of those marriages?
That's a very tough legal question.
Governor Gary Herbert issued this statement.
"The state is requesting an emergency stay
on this ruling, pending the appeal."
This is a significant decision.
First in history.
We will defend the law that's on the books,
which we do recognize as the will of the people.
I was a supporter of Amendment 3 as a individual.
I think that's the best way to have family arrangements
and the best chance for children,
husband and wife, father and mother.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
reacting to the ruling in a statement.
The Church says, "We continue to believe that voters in Utah
did the right thing by providing clear direction
in the State Constitution
that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
We're hopeful this view will be validated by a higher court."
News specialist Sandra Yi's live in Salt Lake City tonight
with our top story.
Sandra, how many counties are refusing to issue licenses?
Well, Dave, we called every clerk's office in the state,
and five do not have plans to issue marriage licenses
to same-sex couples.
News at Nine.
Thank you for joining us.
It was billed by organizers as a call for an uprising
after a federal court decision voided Utah law
against gay marriage.
The event is in Utah County.
Fox 13's Todd Tanner is live in Highland.
The event was organized by
the Constitutional Sheriffs and Police Officers Association.
Organizers and speakers here say that basically
Governor Herbert has failed at his job,
and it will be up to law enforcement
and everyday citizens to deny gay marriage.
We need people to stand up and speak out.
We need to get noisy. We need some outrage.
The way you take back freedom in America
is one county at a time.
The sheriffs need to defend the county clerks in saying no,
we're not gonna issue marriage licenses to homosexuals.
I wanna say this to the homosexual community.
We mean you no harm.
First, we ask you that you understand
the history of America
and that the intention of the Founding Fathers
in developing a Constitution that does one thing:
protect God-given, innate rights.
And these people fought and died for this.
Now we're going, "We'll write whatever we say they are now."
You're never going to convince us
that homosexual marriage
is one of those innate, God-given rights.
It's not.
It's not one of those rights.
And we don't want any more of your gay appreciation parades.
And we don't want any more of this,
"We're gonna teach this in the schools
without our permission and without us being involved."
We have rights,
and we choose not to teach that to our children,
and we don't want you teaching it to 'em either!
♪ Jesus said of everyone ♪
♪ Treat them kindly too ♪
♪ When your heart is filled with love ♪
♪ Others will love you ♪
I would like to introduce to you tonight
the amazing brain behind all this,
the glue that stuck this altogether for everybody,
Mark Lawrence.
Judge Shelby has a new title.
He is an activist judge.
I sat there and thought, "What is an activist judge?"
Apparently an activist judge is a judge who understands
the Constitution of the United States.
Same-sex marriages in Utah are now on hold.
Today the US Supreme Court granted the state a stay,
which means gay couples in Utah
will no longer receive marriage licenses.
But what about couples that are already married?
In a press conference responding to the ruling,
new Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes says
he doesn't know if marriages between Utah same-sex couples
will remain valid.
This is precisely the uncertainty
we were hoping to avoid.
Legal documents filed to the U.S. Supreme Court,
where Utah made its case for a stay.
The state went on to discuss the possibility
of same-sex marriages being retroactively voided.
Right now is a rough time for gay couples
who want to adopt a child in the state of Utah.
Although some couples may have completed
the adoption process,
the state wants to put those adoptions on hold.
The City of Utah says its constitutional authority
to define marriage should stay intact.
That is according to a legal brief filed
with the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals late last night.
Tonight political specialist Richard Pye
says the waiting game begins
even as emotions simmer over this issue.
State attorneys insist
society can only have one understanding of marriage
as a one-man, one-woman institution,
the best for raising children.
"Redefining marriage," the brief reads,
"as a genderless, adult-centric institution
would fundamentally change Utah's child-centered meaning
and purpose of marriage."
"Instead," the state says, "the laws at issue here
simply encourage a familial structure
that has served society for thousands of years."
At the legislature, leadership in the Utah Senate
quietly cheered this brief
on the basis of state and religious freedom.
We feel it's a duty to defend our jurisdiction
over the definition of marriage.
They really recognize the issues of religious freedom.
They recognize the issues of how do we raise children.
The case now goes before
a federal appeals court in Denver,
but many expect it to find its way to the Supreme Court.
A Supreme Court decision could have
major repercussions across the country.
If Utah's ban is overturned,
the same could happen for same-sex marriage bans
in nearly 30 other states.
The way things kept falling into place
for this case,
I just got to a point where it became so euphoric for a while,
we didn't think anything could go wrong.
I was really, really convinced this was gonna work
because we were a small independent team
working together just for Utah.
But I was getting guff from national organizations going,
"You shouldn't be doing this. This is too big for you."
I just said, "Fuck you. What are you doing?"
The pushback was phone calls telling us that,
"You are a little law firm in the backwater of the nation."
Everybody believed we would never get it done here.
We're too red.
It's too conservative.
It's the home of the LDS Church.
60-plus percent had passed Amendment 3.
People were very unhappy with us. I mean pissed.
A case from Utah was not on anybody's agenda.
It's not because, "Oh, you can't have glory.
It needs to be done our way. We need the glory."
A lot of these large national organizations
were what I called professional homosexuals.
People who make six-digit incomes on exploiting being gay.
They all had these roadmaps all lined up.
They were gonna win marriage equality
because they have to justify their six-digit incomes
to their donors.
When you go full-steam ahead
with the righteousness of your convictions,
and you think you've got it nailed,
and you think you know exactly what you're doing,
and then you lose.
In the cases we're involved in,
you don't just lose for your client,
you lose for the whole effing community.
I uniformly got shut down by every one of the experts
telling me that they were not willing to help me
because I was not affiliated with a national organization.
So they just refused to help us,
and Mark was angry.
He's not a person who wanted to be
part of an organization telling him what to do.
But at the end of the day,
all of the organizations were all on the same team,
and you need to learn to play together
and use each other's strengths to get what y'all need.
Peggy then reached out to NCLR and said,
"I know NCLR understands these issues."
And so we started helping out and then came informally.
A couple of days later, I got a phone call
from an investor who had just sent us a check for $1,000.
He says, "Well, you better send me my check back."
I said, "What? What are you talking about?"
He said, "You guys have been going on and on
about this grassroots organization,
this little law firm,
and you've turned it over to a national organization."
I went onto the NCLR website, and there is Derek and Moudi.
"See our plaintiffs, our new case in Utah."
We were told that they would be representing the plaintiffs.
That started making me angry
because as far as I'm concerned, they have no right.
They have no justification coming here, telling us anything
because none of these organizations
have done anything for us.
All of a sudden, we were not included in meetings anymore.
We were not included in any communications anymore.
We had a really good thing going.
That good thing was driven apart by a national organization.
And then things started getting even worse.
It finally got to the point where it was, "All right, Mark,
shut the fuck up and get under the bus."
It was incredibly disappointing.
It's like being at the highest point in your whole life
and then being at the lowest point in your whole life.
It's like crashing.
Our primary purpose in this case was to raise the money.
I've never done fundraising before.
I just thought it was gonna be easy.
And that turned out to be... big disaster.
Did not happen.
I'm not a professional homosexual.
I'm an amateur homosexual.
You work, and you sweat,
and we kept thinking it'll take off any minute now.
Then we would have a fundraiser with 10 or 20 people at it.
People don't like giving money to lawyers.
And that's always gonna be that way.
People were appalled that they were charging us
and not doing this pro bono.
One of the things that's been said is that we were greedy,
that we wanted to make money off of this case.
I will admit that we wanted to be paid,
and that was a fundamental premise
of what Mark Lawrence told us when he came in the door.
At the end of the day, I think we are about $900,000
in unpaid attorney fees.
One other thing that really became an issue for us
was that they were lying about how much money we had paid.
There were even rumors that we were financially disreputable.
I think one of the other plaintiffs said
she had heard we had raised $200,000
and only 5,000 of it had gone to lawyers.
I thought, "Oh, my goodness."
We'd be lucky if we donated 5,000 to the lawyers.
What about 200,000? Wow!
There was no way we had ever raised that much.
A call for civility on social media
from the man at the heart of Utah's same-sex marriage case.
That call came appropriately enough on Facebook.
The author of the post is one of the plaintiffs
directly involved in same-sex marriage case.
I think it's important for us as a community to be respectful.
So when you direct a negative comment
towards Governor Herbert,
saying look at us, we're a family,
we are normal just like everybody else,
and then some bad words,
that's going to nullify the message
that you're trying to send to him.
Governor Herbert you are pandering
to a small group of radical fanatics.
You are harming our families.
You are harming the families who don't meet your tiny,
narrow, naive definition of what a family is.
Well, guess what, Gary.
There's a lot more of us.
And the hell with political correctness.
We started getting a lot of criticism
about what we were doing, and that became an issue.
The plaintiffs started becoming very volatile.
They were like little vials of nitroglycerin.
They had to be handled very carefully.
And things continued to break down.
We were called into a meeting at one of the plaintiff's house.
We sat with all the plaintiffs and the legal team,
and they proceeded to attack us.
Mark is irrational.
He's gonna have a burst of flames,
but it's gonna die out very quickly.
We are used to Moudi's little fucking shit-fits
and temper tantrums.
Every time he does this,
everybody bends him over and kisses his ass.
It's like, "Oh, God, Moudi's mad.
Oh, no, everybody drop what you're doing.
Moudi's pissed."
Mark has definitely laid the foundation for all of us,
and we need to be very appreciative.
You know what?
He had a vision, and I wanna grant him that.
But he cannot go on embarrassing us.
But a lot of it is just miscommunication.
No, it's not. That's not miscommunication.
Moudi is spouting his shit because he's frustrated.
He did not like the way I speak in my public speaking.
That is a weakness for me, and it's something-- I hate it.
I fucking hate public speaking.
I think that's the problem with Mark.
He takes an all-or-nothing approach.
I feel like I'm being attacked.
He had the warrior mentality,
and it wasn't the right time.
Mark harbored pretty hard feelings
about how he'd been treated.
But from our perspective, we really needed to make sure
we weren't doing any kind of damage that could hurt the case.
So I think that's really where we began to part ways.
I called a lawyer...
and I said I want you to dissolve our relationship
with Magleby & Greenwood.
We want nothing to do with these people again.
Utah will spend $300,000
to bring in a team of three outside attorneys
to help defend the state's same-sex marriage ban
before a federal appeals court.
The Utah Attorney General's office announced a few hours ago
that it has chosen Gene Scheer to lead the team.
Attorney General Sean Reyes says Scheer
has handled dozens of cases before federal appeals courts.
There really is a conflict between same-sex marriage
or institutionalized same-sex marriage
and religious liberty.
Utah hires Washington DC attorney Gene Scheer
to help them defend the same-sex marriage ban
in front of the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.
Scheer is a Mormon, and as he's leaving his firm,
he crafts this email
in which he's explaining to his colleagues
his reason for going to do this.
He feels a religious duty
to help defend traditional marriage.
Gene Scheer came into the senate Republican caucus
and said that we were forbidden to run any legislation
that might touch on the LGBT community.
For the Utah legislature to shut its doors,
we're better than that.
We take on the tough issues.
Remember, he was working for the state
and talking about working for a conservative think tank.
So I think it was a very cheap move,
and that's what I said in that caucus.
I didn't feel he was representing the state.
I felt like he was representing this conservative think tank.
There was such a desire
for people to understand the diversity of gay rights,
yet it didn't seem to flow both ways.
Any community has a strong majority of something.
Now, there a lot of people who follow the LDS faith
in the legislature,
and Attorney General Reyes
happened to be a Mormon bishop years ago.
But I did not see the LDS Church ever coming in
and lobbying us during the case.
I'll just throw that out there. They didn't.
There's no doubt. I mean, absolutely.
Anything that happened on the same-sex marriage issue,
the Church was controlling.
Remember, I've dealt with the Church on LGBT issues.
Whether it's a whisper and a nod here and there,
the Church completely was in favor of what was going on.
Otherwise, it wouldn't have been happening.
A system is in place.
It's a good thing a system is in place,
and we'll continue to do our jobs.
We have finally had an opportunity to put in writing
why the state's opening brief wholly lacks merit.
I think the thing that is disturbing to me
is this whole child-centric argument
when they're now intervening in all of these adoptions.
If they cared about the kids,
they would care about providing as much security,
stability and support as they can.
I just wanna know it's really gone,
and it's in someone else's hands,
and that they're gonna be reading it
after reading the state's brief, and they're gonna go, "Yeah!"
That's what we were thinking!
And they said it better.
If you read the state's brief, it is really an emotional plea
based on arguments that are not real
or supported by social science
and ignore constitutional tenets.
The Constitution is intended to avoid having any majority
impose its personal, biased viewpoint
on the rest of the citizens.
I think we're just gonna have to file the one they sent us.
We don't have enough time. Hey, and this is perfect.
We're good.
Sorry, buddy, go to bed.
We are so excited about this.
The brief is awesome, awesome, awesome.
We're almost there!
As long as we get it filed before midnight,
that's what matters.
Whoo!
Next week the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals
will hear Utah's case against same-sex marriage.
Now this a ruling that could impact
every single state in this country.
It'll likely be the first federal ruling
on the constitutionality of same-sex marriage ever.
We are not going away. This is our home!
Utah's exactly the right place.
We have always experimented
with social and marital relationships.
They're all history.
We are blessed when we are persecuted
for the sake of righteousness.
Whatever any court decides does not end this fight.
The court does not decide the definition of marriage.
Now at least 84 people or groups
are finding themselves as friends of the court.
Groups like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Just yesterday, a group of 81 state lawmakers
filed saying, "We especially feel a profound duty
to the children of the state."
The impact of a bad ruling
will be felt for decades.
- Okay, turn around. - It's not choking me.
Okay, as long as it's not a full choke, you're fine.
You look very handsome today.
Thanks. So do you.
We're here this morning for one case.
13-4178 Kitchen v. Herbert.
Counsel, you may proceed.
Thank you, Your Honor, and good morning.
I am Gene Scheer, and I am honored to appear today
on behalf of the state of Utah and its people.
The issue is really one of authority.
That is, whether under the federal Constitution,
the state's definitional authority over marriage
allows them to retain the traditional
man/woman definition of marriage.
Your Honor, every state, including the state of Utah,
is bound by the guarantees
and protections of the 14th Amendment
for every single citizen in its state.
Amendment 3, and the other marriage discrimination laws...
...was to exclude same-sex couples
from marriage recognition.
The man/woman marriage conveys the message
that a mom and dad are important, okay?
And when you redefine marriage,
you dilute that message in the law.
Your Honor, one large national study
found that boys raised outside of attached marriages
were two to three times more likely
to commit a crime leading to imprisonment.
There is no study that, in fact, measures
that same-sex parenting is not as good
as what they call a man/woman marriage.
We want to be clear.
This historical practice is the one that Utah supports.
Period.
Your Honor, the Supreme Court has expressed
that an individual's constitutional rights
are not subject to public vote or legislative action.
These laws are not the type of laws
that our Constitution will permit
because, as the court has said before,
the Constitution does not allow classes between its citizens.
Thank you for your time.
We look forward to a swift decision
and have confidence that these judges
will give this case the serious consideration it deserves,
and we look forward to bringing marriage equality to Utah
and the rest of the Tenth Circuit.
When Gene Scheer argued,
I was surprised that he was less of a legal advocate
than I thought he would be
and more an advocate for his own personal religious beliefs.
It was almost to the point of being offensive,
how he was casting children who grew up without fathers.
The fact that they were more likely to be
sexual deviants and drug addicts.
It made me realize
how much some of these positions with the state was taking
were truly hurting children
when my son, who was there, came up to me.
He said, "Do you realize he's talking about me?"
Attorney General Sean Reyes joins me now
to tell us a little bit more
about how you thought the proceedings went
and the importance of this case in the state of Utah.
Thanks, Rich. Both sides acquitted themselves very well.
It was a very active panel. Questions that...
As we walked into the courtroom,
you could feel the gravity of the moment.
We sat down on the bench,
and we were waiting for our oral arguments to begin,
and Attorney General Reyes came up and introduced himself.
Then he kneeled down and said he wanted us to be happy,
and that he never wanted to hurt us.
I did use the phrase "It's not personal."
Obviously, it's very personal to everybody.
But I was saying that enforcement of the law
was not intended to single out any particular family.
I've tried to put myself in their shoes.
Then I realized he was blatantly lying
because if he did care about us
and he cared about our happiness,
then he wouldn't be in the courtroom
actively trying to prevent us from marrying one another.
When he knelt down and said,
"I hope you know that this isn't personal,"
it brought tears to our eyes because what else was it?
That's all it was, was personal.
The position that we're taking
likely causes them pain and heartache,
and I'm sorry for that.
I don't apologize for what we're doing
in terms of representing the laws of the state of Utah.
I remember him saying, "I know you love your family
as much as I love mine."
I would like to focus on the fact
that he recognized that Laurie and I were a family.
Same-sex marriage is once again
legal in the state of Utah.
That's because of the ruling coming down
about an hour ago on Amendment 3
from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.
The Attorney General sent this letter
to all county clerks in the state:
"Effective immediately, all counties are advised
to conduct business today and going forward,
recognizing all legally performed same-sex marriages."
Shelby's ruling parted the waters
and every other ruling was following in Shelby's footsteps.
The reason Judge Shelby's decision became the domino
is it was the first federal court to declare
that a state could not ban marriage equality.
Utah to be the first domino was unexpected.
That really shocked the entire state.
At that point, we knew the world had changed.
♪♪
When it really sank in
is when I got to do my second parent adoption.
I was a mess.
I cried. I couldn't get my voice
to quit wavering all over place.
When you love a child, it's a very powerless position
not to be able to protect them and tell them they're secure,
and they don't need to worry.
The judge asked him, "What do you think about this?"
He goes, "I am so happy."
He said, "I love Peggy so much."
"Do you want her to be your mom?"
"Especially I want her to be my mom."
Here is my life sitting in here, getting all dirty and ruined.
I haven't had a positive amount in my checking account
for probably nine months now.
Christ, I'm 57 years old,
and I don't have my own home yet.
That really, really makes me feel shitty.
That has a lot to do with why I got involved in this damn case.
It's been a good distraction.
When you look at these stories of how sweet everything was?
Bullshit.
We were almost, at one point, like a little family.
And now we're enemies.
Somebody asked me, "Would you do it over again?"
I don't think I would.
♪♪