0 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:15,000 1 00:00:50,884 --> 00:00:53,803 At the time I made the film, The Exorcist, 2 00:00:54,137 --> 00:00:56,639 I had never seen an exorcism. 3 00:00:57,265 --> 00:00:59,476 More than four decades later, 4 00:01:00,310 --> 00:01:02,520 I witnessed the one you are about to see. 5 00:01:09,903 --> 00:01:11,613 You asked me earlier, 6 00:01:12,113 --> 00:01:15,408 -if I was ever gonna do anything else... -Right. 7 00:01:15,492 --> 00:01:16,576 ...about the devil, 8 00:01:16,659 --> 00:01:19,704 -and you seem concerned... -Yeah. 9 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:22,791 ...when you asked me that. Why were you concerned? 10 00:01:22,874 --> 00:01:25,919 People ought to stay away from the subject as much as possible. 11 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,379 The more you open yourself, 12 00:01:28,588 --> 00:01:30,173 to thinking about this stuff 13 00:01:30,423 --> 00:01:32,383 and you start feeling about this stuff, 14 00:01:32,884 --> 00:01:34,636 the more room you allow 15 00:01:34,886 --> 00:01:36,012 for the supernatural 16 00:01:36,513 --> 00:01:38,181 power of evil to come in. 17 00:02:02,497 --> 00:02:05,625 There are more than 60 million people in Italy. 18 00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:11,506 According to two of the leading newspapers, 19 00:02:12,006 --> 00:02:13,967 and the major television channel, 20 00:02:14,884 --> 00:02:19,806 500,000 Italians see an exorcist every year. 21 00:02:21,432 --> 00:02:23,017 This woman is one of them. 22 00:02:24,144 --> 00:02:25,603 Her name is Christina. 23 00:02:26,479 --> 00:02:28,273 She's 46 years old 24 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:32,569 and lives 200 miles south east of Rome, 25 00:02:32,694 --> 00:02:34,612 in a small mountain village. 26 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:36,739 She's an architect 27 00:02:37,448 --> 00:02:38,616 that can't work. 28 00:02:40,034 --> 00:02:41,744 She's said to be possessed 29 00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:43,413 by the Devil. 30 00:02:44,289 --> 00:02:45,999 Father Gabriele Amorth, 31 00:02:46,332 --> 00:02:49,335 has been the exorcist for the diocese of Rome 32 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,337 for 31 years. 33 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,759 He has exorcised Christina eight times without success. 34 00:02:58,761 --> 00:03:00,471 This will be her ninth. 35 00:03:04,392 --> 00:03:06,686 In the fall of 1972, 36 00:03:06,811 --> 00:03:08,688 I came to Georgetown, 37 00:03:08,813 --> 00:03:12,525 here, in Washington D.C., to film The Exorcist. 38 00:03:13,192 --> 00:03:16,029 The Exorcist is a novel by William Peter Blatty, 39 00:03:16,362 --> 00:03:19,324 inspired by an event that took place 40 00:03:19,741 --> 00:03:21,576 in 1949, 41 00:03:21,993 --> 00:03:26,456 when Blatty was an undergraduate here at Georgetown University. 42 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,295 Right now we are on the campus of Georgetown University in Washington D.C. 43 00:03:32,378 --> 00:03:34,839 We're on the main campus, right by the front, 44 00:03:35,173 --> 00:03:37,759 and in one of those classrooms, 45 00:03:38,384 --> 00:03:40,762 I listened to a Jesuit Priest. 46 00:03:41,137 --> 00:03:45,016 He was teaching a theology course, new testament. 47 00:03:45,558 --> 00:03:48,353 Father Eugene Gallaghar began to 48 00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:52,649 go off on a case of possession and exorcism and 49 00:03:53,024 --> 00:03:55,902 that's where I first heard about possession. 50 00:03:56,319 --> 00:03:58,071 On this quiet little street, 51 00:03:58,738 --> 00:04:02,033 in this quiet town called, Cottage City, Maryland. 52 00:04:02,659 --> 00:04:06,788 This is the house where the 1949 case began. 53 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:09,207 Where Luther and family 54 00:04:09,874 --> 00:04:11,751 whose 14 year old son 55 00:04:12,210 --> 00:04:13,753 was said to be possessed. 56 00:04:14,712 --> 00:04:17,757 He was examined by doctors and psychiatrists, 57 00:04:18,049 --> 00:04:22,262 who could not determine the cause of his disturbing afflictions. 58 00:04:23,179 --> 00:04:26,891 And so, priests from the Catholic Dioceses, 59 00:04:27,225 --> 00:04:33,189 in Washington D.C. were brought in to perform a series of exorcisms 60 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:34,899 at this very house. 61 00:04:35,441 --> 00:04:39,445 The boy was later transferred to Alexian Brothers Hospital 62 00:04:39,654 --> 00:04:40,613 in St. Louis, 63 00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:43,741 where he was eventually liberated. 64 00:04:45,243 --> 00:04:49,622 Bill Blatty believed in the truth of this case when he wrote his novel, 65 00:04:50,039 --> 00:04:51,749 and later, his screenplay 66 00:04:51,958 --> 00:04:53,042 of The Exorcist. 67 00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:56,587 And so did I, when I directed the film. 68 00:04:57,422 --> 00:05:01,009 And lo and behold, I then read it in the Washington Post, 69 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:03,845 and I was very excited about it. 70 00:05:04,178 --> 00:05:07,098 And I thought, wouldn't it be absolutely marvelous 71 00:05:07,765 --> 00:05:10,184 if one could write a non-fiction account... 72 00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:12,186 of this. 73 00:05:12,395 --> 00:05:15,982 Provided it was authentically something 74 00:05:16,691 --> 00:05:18,526 paranormal and inexplicable. 75 00:05:20,111 --> 00:05:22,447 What a tremendous re-affirmation of faith that would be. 76 00:05:22,530 --> 00:05:24,240 There would be a fantastic... 77 00:05:24,324 --> 00:05:25,867 well, what are we waiting for? 78 00:05:26,826 --> 00:05:28,119 And... 79 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:30,705 many, many, many years later, 80 00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:34,667 it all came back to me. 81 00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:35,918 And I was determined 82 00:05:37,003 --> 00:05:40,214 to write that story but as non-fiction. 83 00:05:41,632 --> 00:05:45,762 And I finally was able to track down, with great difficulty, 84 00:05:45,845 --> 00:05:48,473 the original exorcist in that particular case. 85 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:50,349 His name was, Father William Bowden. 86 00:05:50,433 --> 00:05:51,601 He's a Jesuit. 87 00:05:51,934 --> 00:05:53,186 He was very eager to help me. 88 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:57,273 And apparently, a promise of absolute silence 89 00:05:57,356 --> 00:06:01,235 and confidentiality had been given to the family of the possessed boy. 90 00:06:03,112 --> 00:06:07,075 And he asked that, that be lifted because this was a very very good cause. 91 00:06:07,158 --> 00:06:10,369 It was very apostolic work that was going to be done, and 92 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:13,414 I went to the family, and they said no, they wanted no part of it. 93 00:06:13,498 --> 00:06:15,458 Now I was more convinced than ever, 94 00:06:15,666 --> 00:06:17,376 since they were not publicity mongers, 95 00:06:17,668 --> 00:06:19,879 going on Heraldo, or whatever, 96 00:06:20,088 --> 00:06:23,800 that this thing really had substance to it. 97 00:06:24,467 --> 00:06:31,265 And, he utterly galvanized me, Father Bowden did, with one sentence in his letter. 98 00:06:31,432 --> 00:06:35,978 At the bottom, after explaining how sorry he was that he couldn't help me, 99 00:06:36,646 --> 00:06:40,566 and after pleading with me, "Please don't write about this case". 100 00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:43,528 "Don't tell anything that I've told you." 101 00:06:44,946 --> 00:06:48,157 He said, "One thing however I can tell you, 102 00:06:48,866 --> 00:06:52,203 "the case which I was involved with was the real thing." 103 00:06:52,787 --> 00:06:54,455 I had no doubt about it then, 104 00:06:55,039 --> 00:06:56,624 I have no doubt about it now. 105 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,127 And that was all I needed. 106 00:07:00,086 --> 00:07:03,673 This is the house at 36th and Prospect in Georgetown 107 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:07,844 that we used as the exterior of the McNeil house in the film. 108 00:07:08,302 --> 00:07:13,057 Now, the house doesn't look today the way it looked back in 1972, 109 00:07:13,349 --> 00:07:16,185 and that's because we had to build a false front 110 00:07:16,394 --> 00:07:17,895 from the end of this house 111 00:07:18,229 --> 00:07:20,440 to the end of the fence down there, 112 00:07:20,606 --> 00:07:23,443 to bring the house closer to the steps. 113 00:07:23,776 --> 00:07:26,696 Now, on the second floor of that false front 114 00:07:27,113 --> 00:07:30,158 was the exterior of Regan's bedroom, 115 00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:34,370 from which Father Karras could make his final leap. 116 00:07:34,996 --> 00:07:38,291 These steps are just a few feet away from the house. 117 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,670 They are now officially known as, "The Exorcist Steps". 118 00:07:43,296 --> 00:07:46,841 For me, the steps and Georgetown 119 00:07:47,175 --> 00:07:49,093 are the spiritual home 120 00:07:49,469 --> 00:07:50,803 of The Exorcist. 121 00:07:52,138 --> 00:07:55,641 I've always been fascinated by the nature of good and evil. 122 00:07:55,892 --> 00:07:58,811 And the possibility of demonic possession. 123 00:07:59,812 --> 00:08:01,439 But the opportunity for me 124 00:08:01,856 --> 00:08:04,901 to witness and film an actual exorcism, 125 00:08:05,735 --> 00:08:09,614 came about 45 years after I had made the film. 126 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:12,700 And completely by accident. 127 00:08:13,826 --> 00:08:15,495 Or was it providence? 128 00:08:16,245 --> 00:08:18,581 Father Amorth, in his first memoir, 129 00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:21,375 wrote about The Exorcist film 130 00:08:21,501 --> 00:08:24,003 and he said it was his favorite movie. 131 00:08:24,086 --> 00:08:25,713 I guess, of course. 132 00:08:26,547 --> 00:08:28,049 He said that the, um, 133 00:08:28,466 --> 00:08:30,676 special effects were a little over the top, 134 00:08:31,177 --> 00:08:34,805 but he said that it helped people to understand his work. 135 00:08:35,389 --> 00:08:38,809 And so, when I wrote asking if I could meet with him, 136 00:08:39,268 --> 00:08:40,811 he immediately agreed. 137 00:08:41,979 --> 00:08:43,439 At the age of 18, 138 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:47,652 Gabriele Amorth fought his first battle against evil 139 00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:50,238 when he joined the Italian Resistance 140 00:08:50,571 --> 00:08:53,741 against the fascist dictator, Mussolini, 141 00:08:54,075 --> 00:08:55,826 and the Nazi alliance. 142 00:08:56,536 --> 00:09:00,248 He was awarded the Medal of Liberation by the Italian Government. 143 00:09:00,748 --> 00:09:02,500 But it was 10 years later, 144 00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:04,627 before he found his calling 145 00:09:05,253 --> 00:09:06,671 and was ordained a priest 146 00:09:07,213 --> 00:09:09,090 in the society of Saint Paul. 147 00:09:10,132 --> 00:09:13,636 Thirty years after that, in 1986, 148 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:16,889 he became the chief exorcist of Rome 149 00:09:17,223 --> 00:09:22,645 and dedicated his life to helping those he believed were possessed. 150 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,068 Each morning, he would respond to the hundreds of letters he received every week 151 00:09:29,485 --> 00:09:30,528 from around the world. 152 00:09:31,195 --> 00:09:33,489 From those with spiritual diseases. 153 00:09:34,156 --> 00:09:37,368 And he became one of the most beloved figures 154 00:09:37,618 --> 00:09:39,078 in his native country. 155 00:09:39,870 --> 00:09:42,290 He performed his first exorcisms 156 00:09:42,582 --> 00:09:45,084 at the Cathedral of St. John Lateran. 157 00:09:45,501 --> 00:09:49,839 At the complex know as the Church of the Holy Staircase. 158 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:53,217 These 28 marble steps, 159 00:09:53,718 --> 00:09:55,177 now covered in wood, 160 00:09:55,428 --> 00:09:58,723 are the steps that led up to Pontius Pilate's house. 161 00:09:59,473 --> 00:10:01,809 They were brought to Rome in the forth century 162 00:10:02,226 --> 00:10:04,770 and they can only be climbed on your knees. 163 00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:08,691 Marian Luther climbed these steps on his knees 164 00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:10,318 and heard a revelation, 165 00:10:10,651 --> 00:10:12,570 a voice saying, 166 00:10:13,070 --> 00:10:15,698 "The just shall live by faith." 167 00:10:17,033 --> 00:10:21,412 Through this door, Father Amorth entered a small private chapel 168 00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:24,040 where he conducted his exorcisms 169 00:10:24,498 --> 00:10:27,001 until the noise drove away the faithful. 170 00:10:29,462 --> 00:10:31,714 In April of 2016, 171 00:10:32,048 --> 00:10:35,217 I came to Rome to interview Father Amorth 172 00:10:35,593 --> 00:10:36,427 for a magazine. 173 00:10:37,094 --> 00:10:38,846 At the end of our conversation, 174 00:10:39,347 --> 00:10:42,058 I asked him if he might ever allow me 175 00:10:42,224 --> 00:10:45,436 to witness and film an exorcism. 176 00:10:46,604 --> 00:10:50,399 Permission to do this had never been granted by the Vatican. 177 00:10:51,275 --> 00:10:52,401 He took a moment 178 00:10:53,319 --> 00:10:54,278 and then he said, 179 00:10:54,737 --> 00:10:55,780 "Let me think about it." 180 00:10:56,822 --> 00:10:59,241 A few days later, I heard back from him. 181 00:10:59,825 --> 00:11:04,789 He would allow me to film Christina's ninth exorcism 182 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:06,165 on May 1st, 183 00:11:06,415 --> 00:11:09,669 but, with no crew, no lights, 184 00:11:10,044 --> 00:11:12,338 only a small video camera, 185 00:11:12,922 --> 00:11:13,964 alone. 186 00:11:14,924 --> 00:11:17,593 I had no idea what to expect. 187 00:11:19,261 --> 00:11:22,431 But before witnessing Christina's exorcism, 188 00:11:22,807 --> 00:11:26,811 I met a woman who had been successfully exorcised 189 00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:28,104 by Father Amorth. 190 00:11:29,021 --> 00:11:30,481 This is her story. 191 00:11:31,357 --> 00:11:33,692 [speaking Italian] 192 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:41,951 I first met Father Amorth ten years ago, when my sister need his help. 193 00:11:42,451 --> 00:11:45,621 She was suffering a spiritual disease. 194 00:11:46,705 --> 00:11:51,752 He asked to see her medical records. 195 00:11:52,128 --> 00:11:58,759 He wanted to be sure it was a spiritual problem, not a psychological one. 196 00:12:04,557 --> 00:12:11,355 I first realized there was something wrong when I went with a friend to a sanctuary. 197 00:12:12,314 --> 00:12:18,446 When they began to celebrate the Mass, 198 00:12:20,364 --> 00:12:27,121 I started having unusual symptoms. 199 00:12:28,456 --> 00:12:32,877 I cried, my body shook... 200 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:38,007 and I fell into a trance. 201 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:41,218 She called and asked me to come to her home as soon as possible. 202 00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:45,681 She was out of control. 203 00:12:46,098 --> 00:12:51,103 I started screaming like crazy. Someone called the police. 204 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,939 The police came but they wouldn't come in. 205 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,737 They were terrified to hear me scream. 206 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:02,656 She showed extraordinary strength. 207 00:13:03,365 --> 00:13:07,745 And her body began to transform into something that was not human. 208 00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:14,585 Paolo told me I was slithering on the floor... 209 00:13:15,419 --> 00:13:20,966 speaking a strange language. 210 00:13:23,344 --> 00:13:29,558 The fact that I was crawling on the floor must have been shocking. 211 00:13:30,726 --> 00:13:35,231 She looked like a wild animal. 212 00:13:35,814 --> 00:13:42,196 And her belly was swollen like a balloon about to burst. 213 00:13:43,697 --> 00:13:50,704 And her strength was not possible for a woman of her size and age. 214 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:58,754 After many episodes, my brother took me to Father Amorth. 215 00:13:59,255 --> 00:14:05,219 When she first met Father Amorth, she went into an extreme panic state. 216 00:14:06,554 --> 00:14:13,519 He told me to take her to a room where his assistants were waiting. 217 00:14:15,104 --> 00:14:18,774 That's where the first exorcism took place. 218 00:14:19,191 --> 00:14:25,906 Father Amorth was funny and ironic. 219 00:14:27,032 --> 00:14:33,080 He didn't frighten me. 220 00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:40,045 He helped me understand what was happening to me. 221 00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:43,841 It took almost eight months. 222 00:14:45,175 --> 00:14:51,891 The first exorcisms were the most violent. 223 00:14:51,974 --> 00:14:58,063 She had incredible strength. It took four of us to hold her down. 224 00:14:59,565 --> 00:15:06,488 During the second exorcism, Father Amorth had to tie her to a bed. 225 00:15:10,951 --> 00:15:17,750 During the last two exorcisms, the intensity of her strength was decreasing. 226 00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:26,258 After her fourth exorcism, Father Amorth told her it was over. 227 00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:28,427 She was liberated. 228 00:15:29,386 --> 00:15:36,018 The moment he told me I was liberated... 229 00:15:39,104 --> 00:15:45,945 I felt relieved of an enormous weight inside me. 230 00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:56,538 After she was liberated, he wanted to make sure I was okay. 231 00:15:57,164 --> 00:16:02,962 Because sometimes the evil spirit passes from one person to another. 232 00:16:03,837 --> 00:16:08,300 So he exorcised me. It took him fifteen minutes, 233 00:16:08,384 --> 00:16:12,513 and at the end, he told one of his famous jokes: 234 00:16:12,846 --> 00:16:16,642 "Compared to what I usually deal with, you're bursting with health." 235 00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:20,604 Paolo stayed in contact with Father Amorth 236 00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:23,691 and began to assist him with other exorcisms. 237 00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:28,320 It was Paolo who recognized Christina's symptoms 238 00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:29,863 in this church. 239 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:38,205 We heard screams in the church 240 00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:43,085 during the celebration of the Eucharist, 241 00:16:45,129 --> 00:16:49,883 which possessed people cannot tolerate. 242 00:16:52,261 --> 00:16:57,891 She was in incredible pain 243 00:16:57,975 --> 00:17:02,479 writhing on the floor. 244 00:17:03,522 --> 00:17:07,317 Father Amorth asked me to meet her and bring her to him. 245 00:17:09,528 --> 00:17:12,990 Having moved from the Church of the Holy Staircase, 246 00:17:13,323 --> 00:17:16,702 Father Amorth continued his work at his residence. 247 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,121 The home of the Polene priests. 248 00:17:19,788 --> 00:17:22,875 Where on May 1st, 2016, 249 00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:28,839 he invited me to witness Christna's ninth exorcism. 250 00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:35,012 Christina, why are you here to see Father Amorth? 251 00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:42,686 I wanted to be free of the evil spirit and I was looking for help. 252 00:17:43,187 --> 00:17:47,733 I was treated by another priest, but Father Amorth is the best in hi field. 253 00:17:48,442 --> 00:17:50,611 Do you believe that you're possessed? 254 00:17:52,446 --> 00:17:56,867 Not at first, but then things happened that made me believe it. 255 00:17:59,244 --> 00:18:06,085 I kept putting it off until I came to a point of no return. 256 00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:12,591 Then God brought me to Father Amorth. 257 00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:17,262 Did you ever try to seek doctors or psychiatrists? 258 00:18:19,515 --> 00:18:23,268 The psychiatrists couldn't help me, I had a spiritual disease. 259 00:18:23,352 --> 00:18:29,066 Demonic possession can hide behind other diseases. 260 00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:36,406 I would have attacks, often on dates related to Jesus... 261 00:18:37,032 --> 00:18:43,914 A life of pain and suffering. 262 00:18:48,252 --> 00:18:52,047 Cristina is possessed by the devil. 263 00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:02,057 The devil's power is supernatural. 264 00:19:03,308 --> 00:19:08,856 He speaks and acts through her. 265 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:13,819 Possessed people have incredible knowledge. 266 00:19:14,653 --> 00:19:21,034 They speak languages they wouldn't know. 267 00:19:26,498 --> 00:19:27,958 How can you be sure 268 00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:30,919 that Christina is possessed? 269 00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:38,343 I can only be sure when I perform an exorcism 270 00:19:43,307 --> 00:19:50,230 and provoke reactions that are unique to a possessed person. 271 00:20:47,871 --> 00:20:50,415 Father Amorth begins every exorcism 272 00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:53,460 by thumbing his nose at the devil. 273 00:20:58,715 --> 00:21:01,218 In the room are Christina's family, 274 00:21:01,718 --> 00:21:05,055 and other priests to assist Father Amorth. 275 00:21:26,535 --> 00:21:29,663 Pray for us Saint Joseph... 276 00:21:29,746 --> 00:21:31,498 Padre Pio... 277 00:21:32,624 --> 00:21:34,543 Padre Candido... 278 00:21:34,626 --> 00:21:37,546 the Blessed Alberione... 279 00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:46,555 In the name of Jesus and the Virgin Mary... 280 00:21:53,186 --> 00:21:59,026 Give us the power to fight against the Devil. 281 00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:26,636 Leave her! In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 282 00:22:43,945 --> 00:22:48,366 Stop it! No! No! 283 00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:55,624 Hold her tight here, please. 284 00:22:55,749 --> 00:22:57,542 Stay away from her! 285 00:23:00,670 --> 00:23:05,342 Stop holding her. 286 00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:25,028 God, vanquish this ancient enemy. 287 00:23:35,372 --> 00:23:42,212 Lord, repel the Devil's power. 288 00:23:56,351 --> 00:24:03,358 With this holy oil, I anoint your body and soul. 289 00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:44,524 Holy Virgin... Archangels... Saints... Heal Cristina. 290 00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:53,783 May she receive God's grace and be free from the evil one. 291 00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:14,221 Free her from witchcraft, black magic and Satanic Masses. 292 00:25:41,289 --> 00:25:47,045 Break every tie with Satan and his followers. 293 00:26:07,691 --> 00:26:13,196 Free her from sin, envy, jealousy, treachery and disease. 294 00:26:18,034 --> 00:26:22,122 Never! Don't touch her! 295 00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:35,176 She belongs to us! 296 00:26:40,682 --> 00:26:45,812 Send the priest away! I can't stand it! 297 00:27:08,752 --> 00:27:13,131 Cristina, return to the church where you belong. 298 00:27:15,258 --> 00:27:17,635 She belongs to me! 299 00:27:30,398 --> 00:27:32,108 Surrender! 300 00:27:46,831 --> 00:27:48,166 Stop! 301 00:28:05,433 --> 00:28:10,063 I am Satan! Stop this! 302 00:28:34,838 --> 00:28:39,801 The devil is guilty in the eyes of God. 303 00:29:31,644 --> 00:29:37,901 Surrender to the Word of God. 304 00:29:37,984 --> 00:29:43,448 Surrender to the Virgin Mary. 305 00:29:45,116 --> 00:29:49,662 Surrender to Jesus. 306 00:29:57,337 --> 00:30:01,716 -Get out now -Never! 307 00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:19,127 When did you possess her? 308 00:31:21,254 --> 00:31:23,631 Answer me! 309 00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:26,092 When did you possess her? 310 00:31:34,183 --> 00:31:38,855 Evil spirit, you are damned forever. 311 00:32:26,736 --> 00:32:28,696 It's you who are damned! 312 00:33:15,243 --> 00:33:18,788 I command you to leave her! 313 00:33:18,913 --> 00:33:21,499 I am Satan! 314 00:33:41,936 --> 00:33:44,731 Tell me your name. 315 00:33:44,814 --> 00:33:46,649 Satan! 316 00:33:46,774 --> 00:33:48,693 How many are you? 317 00:33:48,776 --> 00:33:51,904 We are legion! 318 00:34:05,501 --> 00:34:08,629 In the name of God, when are you going to leave? 319 00:34:08,713 --> 00:34:10,757 Never! 320 00:34:18,473 --> 00:34:22,560 Leave this daughter of God! 321 00:34:34,781 --> 00:34:38,868 God condemns you, evil spirit! 322 00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:45,625 She is mine! She belongs to me! 323 00:35:02,558 --> 00:35:07,438 We are armies! Armies! 324 00:35:16,656 --> 00:35:23,412 The Virgin Mary will destroy you, Satan! 325 00:35:52,233 --> 00:35:56,612 Set her free! 326 00:36:39,822 --> 00:36:46,078 In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, enough! 327 00:36:48,206 --> 00:36:52,835 Do you need something to drink? 328 00:37:00,176 --> 00:37:02,470 How do you feel? Are you still alive? 329 00:37:15,024 --> 00:37:17,068 Let us all thank God. 330 00:37:28,037 --> 00:37:30,790 Neil, what do you make of what you've just seen? 331 00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:32,583 Absolutely amazing. 332 00:37:33,125 --> 00:37:36,420 So, there is a... 333 00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:41,884 major force at work within her somehow. 334 00:37:42,468 --> 00:37:45,096 I don't know the underlying origin of it 335 00:37:45,721 --> 00:37:47,265 but there's an amazing force. 336 00:37:47,348 --> 00:37:52,812 It's interesting to see that she is not 337 00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:59,151 separated from the environment, she's not in a catatonic state. 338 00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:01,570 She's responding to the priest. 339 00:38:01,946 --> 00:38:03,781 It didn't appear to be hallucinations. 340 00:38:04,407 --> 00:38:08,160 She appeared to be engaged in the process but resisting. 341 00:38:08,828 --> 00:38:12,957 Yeah, it really looks something authentic and real. 342 00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:17,378 People who have very severe pain 343 00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:19,714 sin syndromes, total body pain, 344 00:38:20,006 --> 00:38:22,508 for some reason. It can be even cancer, it could be other. 345 00:38:22,967 --> 00:38:27,013 There is a treatment for it, it says, "intervenes in the singulum", 346 00:38:27,763 --> 00:38:29,932 they have still the pain 347 00:38:30,141 --> 00:38:31,475 but they don't care about it. 348 00:38:32,143 --> 00:38:35,521 So they can tolerate it. It's the emotional aspect of pain. 349 00:38:35,896 --> 00:38:40,067 It is probably what she's describing when she tells you, total body pain. 350 00:38:40,192 --> 00:38:43,779 It may not be really physical pain that she feels but she experiences 351 00:38:44,238 --> 00:38:45,323 as physical pain. 352 00:38:45,531 --> 00:38:49,035 Always she is, all the time, these paroxysms of aggression. 353 00:38:49,744 --> 00:38:52,371 I don't understand again what she was saying exactly, 354 00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:55,833 it's not necessarily directed toward the priest or is it, I'm not sure 355 00:38:56,292 --> 00:38:59,670 but she is like a caged animal in a sense. 356 00:39:00,338 --> 00:39:03,924 Is this some kind of brain disorder? 357 00:39:04,216 --> 00:39:07,386 It looks like the state that we call 358 00:39:09,764 --> 00:39:10,973 delirium. 359 00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:14,518 Which is an agitated disconnection from 360 00:39:15,311 --> 00:39:17,521 normal behavior and from the environment. 361 00:39:18,814 --> 00:39:23,986 Illogical, often very powerful and energetic. 362 00:39:24,445 --> 00:39:26,781 Often requires restraint. 363 00:39:27,073 --> 00:39:29,325 But delirium, you may see the struggling, 364 00:39:29,867 --> 00:39:33,746 you may see some shouting and yelling but this powerful 365 00:39:34,246 --> 00:39:36,540 guttural voice, that does seem, 366 00:39:37,249 --> 00:39:39,293 that seems like it's coming from somewhere else. 367 00:39:41,087 --> 00:39:43,839 When you tell Cristina what she did while she was possessed, 368 00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:48,886 she says, "That wasn't me." 369 00:39:52,306 --> 00:39:53,474 She doesn't even remember it. 370 00:39:58,354 --> 00:40:05,319 The devil's assaults are not constant. Sometimes they can be brief. 371 00:40:10,324 --> 00:40:17,039 And not recur for weeks or months. 372 00:40:20,376 --> 00:40:27,174 At other times, there can be assaults on a daily basis. 373 00:40:27,258 --> 00:40:33,305 And when these happen, the person goes into a trance. 374 00:40:33,764 --> 00:40:39,437 During the rest of her day, she lives and acts normally. 375 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:46,360 But she has constant physical or mental suffering. 376 00:40:49,989 --> 00:40:56,829 Because she's still in a frail state. 377 00:41:03,627 --> 00:41:10,593 Even when assaults are absent, her nervous system remembers everything. 378 00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:16,223 and therefore she continues to suffer. 379 00:41:19,768 --> 00:41:21,562 The day of the exorcism, 380 00:41:21,812 --> 00:41:25,441 happened to be Father Amorth's 91st birthday. 381 00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:30,863 He was happy, and so was I, 382 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,533 because it looked like Christina was cured. 383 00:41:36,702 --> 00:41:40,289 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. God bless you. I bless you. 384 00:41:40,748 --> 00:41:44,710 Now you can go bless yourselves. 385 00:41:45,211 --> 00:41:48,422 Do you think she could have been better helped by brain surgery, 386 00:41:48,547 --> 00:41:50,382 than this religious ritual? 387 00:41:50,591 --> 00:41:51,842 I would say, unlikely. 388 00:41:52,343 --> 00:41:55,554 -How man surgeries have you performed? Brain surgeries? -Well, 389 00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:58,098 More than 5,000 390 00:41:58,349 --> 00:41:59,517 over the years. 391 00:42:00,893 --> 00:42:03,854 Brain tumors, traumatic brain injury, 392 00:42:04,647 --> 00:42:06,690 ruptured brain aneurysms, 393 00:42:07,816 --> 00:42:09,985 infections affecting the brain 394 00:42:10,945 --> 00:42:13,322 and I haven't seen 395 00:42:13,822 --> 00:42:14,865 this kind of... 396 00:42:15,449 --> 00:42:19,161 this kind of consequence from any of those disorders. 397 00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:24,542 Are you prepared to say that there's such a thing as exorcism and 398 00:42:24,833 --> 00:42:26,252 demonic possession? 399 00:42:27,253 --> 00:42:29,755 Here's the point. You have to believe it 400 00:42:30,089 --> 00:42:32,174 in order to go through it. 401 00:42:32,758 --> 00:42:34,677 If someone does not believe 402 00:42:35,427 --> 00:42:36,679 that they are possessed, 403 00:42:37,304 --> 00:42:39,139 -they will not do this... -Yeah, yeah, but... 404 00:42:39,223 --> 00:42:43,310 ...but they will have an MRI, they will see a psychiatrist, they will 405 00:42:43,727 --> 00:42:46,772 possibly, I don't know, an operation... 406 00:42:46,855 --> 00:42:50,150 But people are very much context dependent. 407 00:42:50,234 --> 00:42:56,073 I mean, you probably will not have this in somebody who has no religious background. 408 00:42:56,156 --> 00:42:59,326 -Right. -Meaning that the religion that they absorb, 409 00:42:59,994 --> 00:43:01,620 the things they absorb, 410 00:43:01,954 --> 00:43:04,540 they obviously change their brain. 411 00:43:04,957 --> 00:43:07,376 You're asking me if I believe in exorcism, 412 00:43:07,459 --> 00:43:10,337 I only look at it as a behavioral phenomenon. 413 00:43:10,671 --> 00:43:15,593 If I were a Catholic priest okay, or a Jewish Rabbi, 414 00:43:15,718 --> 00:43:17,261 I may have a different explanation. 415 00:43:17,761 --> 00:43:20,014 Can I categorize it? Maybe. 416 00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:21,724 Can I know how to treat it? 417 00:43:21,807 --> 00:43:22,683 No. 418 00:43:22,891 --> 00:43:24,935 So, something is happening to her, it's clear. 419 00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:27,563 But maybe she puts into it 420 00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:30,107 the religious context in which she grew up. 421 00:43:30,482 --> 00:43:33,402 'Cause they believe obviously they know what's wrong with her. 422 00:43:33,527 --> 00:43:35,154 She's possessed by the devil. 423 00:43:35,446 --> 00:43:37,489 Are you religious at all, yourself? 424 00:43:37,573 --> 00:43:39,491 Oh, come on, you're gonna ask me this type of question? 425 00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:42,578 I thought this was about this, not about me. 426 00:43:42,661 --> 00:43:45,539 no, but what is your thought about god, for example. 427 00:43:45,789 --> 00:43:50,002 I do believe that there is a limit to human understanding. 428 00:43:50,711 --> 00:43:53,922 And there's really a limit behind this limit, 429 00:43:54,548 --> 00:43:57,593 I'm willing to place an entity called god. 430 00:44:00,137 --> 00:44:04,975 Dr. Fried shared with me this three-dimensional, color coded image 431 00:44:05,059 --> 00:44:06,352 of the human brain. 432 00:44:07,436 --> 00:44:09,897 The red section controls movement. 433 00:44:10,314 --> 00:44:12,733 The green controls vision. 434 00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:17,821 The light blue and dark blue sections control language. 435 00:44:19,198 --> 00:44:23,827 That yellow section is a tumor in the left temporal lobe. 436 00:44:25,371 --> 00:44:27,373 This tumor can cause seizures 437 00:44:27,456 --> 00:44:31,835 that result in hallucinations and language problems. 438 00:44:33,253 --> 00:44:37,508 Is it possible that this could be the cause of what we call, 439 00:44:37,966 --> 00:44:39,468 demonic possession? 440 00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:42,971 I've never seen anything like that before. 441 00:44:43,263 --> 00:44:46,016 But I've only practiced neurology for 35 years. 442 00:44:47,267 --> 00:44:52,189 I believe that these are behaviors that are generated in her brain. 443 00:44:52,439 --> 00:44:53,941 How it's done and what it is... 444 00:44:54,858 --> 00:44:56,026 can't say. 445 00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,696 In patients who have seizures that emanate from the temporal lobe, 446 00:45:00,447 --> 00:45:04,284 one of their manifestations in between the seizures is that they can become 447 00:45:04,618 --> 00:45:05,994 hyper religious. 448 00:45:06,537 --> 00:45:09,748 Uncertain what the cause and effect is here but that's a, 449 00:45:10,207 --> 00:45:15,587 that is a coincidental linkage between those two phenomena. 450 00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:19,675 You don't think that you could 451 00:45:20,592 --> 00:45:24,138 take this woman into the normal 452 00:45:25,681 --> 00:45:28,016 procedures in neurology 453 00:45:28,475 --> 00:45:31,186 and cure this affliction? 454 00:45:32,062 --> 00:45:34,565 Only if this proved to be some kind of a seizure, 455 00:45:34,815 --> 00:45:36,525 which I don't think it really is. 456 00:45:36,608 --> 00:45:39,862 Do you have any belief in exorcism 457 00:45:40,487 --> 00:45:42,823 as a possible treatment? 458 00:45:43,407 --> 00:45:45,451 I have an open mind about these things 459 00:45:45,534 --> 00:45:48,537 because I have seen plenty of things that have occured 460 00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:53,250 during my career and my lifetime that were not explainable at the beginning and have 461 00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:55,210 rational basis now. 462 00:45:55,752 --> 00:45:59,006 There are plenty of things that we don't understand that are real. 463 00:45:59,131 --> 00:46:01,175 For example, radio activity. 464 00:46:01,383 --> 00:46:04,511 Right, we can't see it, we don't know what it is. 465 00:46:05,137 --> 00:46:08,140 Once it was revealed that this exists 466 00:46:08,223 --> 00:46:10,976 and the good and the harm that it can do, 467 00:46:11,393 --> 00:46:13,061 that was a whole other field of science. 468 00:46:13,479 --> 00:46:18,108 Are you open to the possibility that an exorcism could relieve this? 469 00:46:18,484 --> 00:46:22,863 Well, let's make it analogous to a person who believes in psychiatry. 470 00:46:23,989 --> 00:46:25,657 Works with a psychiatrist. 471 00:46:26,783 --> 00:46:29,661 Takes the advice, suggestions, input, 472 00:46:30,037 --> 00:46:32,331 no medications, nothing else, it's just 473 00:46:32,456 --> 00:46:35,417 two individuals working on 474 00:46:35,959 --> 00:46:37,586 a problem that one of them has. 475 00:46:38,045 --> 00:46:43,675 If the patient is open and willing to participate, 476 00:46:43,926 --> 00:46:48,013 I think the benefit can be realized by that person. 477 00:46:48,263 --> 00:46:49,389 Through exorcism? 478 00:46:49,890 --> 00:46:51,934 Through that process of interaction. 479 00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:55,312 If we don't understand it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 480 00:47:16,333 --> 00:47:19,836 Given our scientific and medical backgrounds, 481 00:47:19,962 --> 00:47:23,715 do we count it as the possibility 482 00:47:24,341 --> 00:47:27,761 of there being something that's 483 00:47:28,136 --> 00:47:30,931 spiritual or supernatural in nature. 484 00:47:31,348 --> 00:47:33,308 It takes the form of disturbed behavior. 485 00:47:33,392 --> 00:47:36,603 When someone says your supposed to do something, the right thing to take care of yourself, 486 00:47:36,687 --> 00:47:37,896 so she's doing 487 00:47:37,980 --> 00:47:40,607 the right thing by her family and everyone else 488 00:47:40,691 --> 00:47:42,526 to try to get herself better. 489 00:47:42,609 --> 00:47:44,027 ...hurting her, it could be helping her. 490 00:47:44,111 --> 00:47:46,989 Would it better for her to see a psychiatrist in Rome? 491 00:47:47,823 --> 00:47:50,826 The question is, what kind of psycho-therapy 492 00:47:50,909 --> 00:47:52,619 or intervention does she need. 493 00:47:52,703 --> 00:47:56,665 And they have a certain idea that the way you deal with this 494 00:47:56,748 --> 00:47:59,459 is by getting rid of that completely negative 495 00:47:59,793 --> 00:48:01,587 side of her experience. 496 00:48:02,421 --> 00:48:04,172 Perhaps in the case of some people, 497 00:48:04,339 --> 00:48:07,426 getting rid of it completely in this ritualistic way is quite good. 498 00:48:07,509 --> 00:48:10,053 Well, what do you think this is? Unconscious fraud? 499 00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:13,140 No. No. No... 500 00:48:13,765 --> 00:48:18,145 So... Okay, this is called the dissociative reaction or 501 00:48:18,562 --> 00:48:20,272 -culturally... -Dissociative Trance Disorder. 502 00:48:20,522 --> 00:48:24,776 -Dissociative Trance Disorder. -DSF and trance in possession disorder in ICD. 503 00:48:25,193 --> 00:48:26,987 So, it's a recognized... 504 00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:29,406 It's a recognized diagnosis worldwide. 505 00:48:29,865 --> 00:48:31,658 It has some cultural variation 506 00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:33,493 but it's basically the same thing. 507 00:48:33,577 --> 00:48:36,872 She is doing something and everybody is participating 508 00:48:36,955 --> 00:48:39,374 in a ritual that they all agree is 509 00:48:39,666 --> 00:48:41,293 the right way to look at the world. 510 00:48:41,376 --> 00:48:45,297 Part of what may work particularly well for some people in that setting 511 00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:47,007 is that everybody in the room, 512 00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:50,177 they actually believe this is the framework of reality. 513 00:48:50,427 --> 00:48:53,472 This is what is it and we must do this. 514 00:48:53,555 --> 00:48:54,389 The Placebo Response. 515 00:48:54,473 --> 00:48:58,060 The gaining of the idea that if you believe something to be likely to work, 516 00:48:58,143 --> 00:48:59,311 the more likely to work. 517 00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:01,313 I have a issue right now on my unit, 518 00:49:01,563 --> 00:49:03,190 who's similar to this in some ways. 519 00:49:03,273 --> 00:49:06,777 She says she's possessed by the devil. She speaks in a bizarre voice, 520 00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:08,820 she hasn't attacked anyone but 521 00:49:08,987 --> 00:49:10,739 she comes from a religious background. 522 00:49:10,864 --> 00:49:12,366 It's Protestant, rather than Catholic. 523 00:49:12,616 --> 00:49:15,744 But it might be more the Charismatic Pentecostal Protestantism. 524 00:49:15,827 --> 00:49:18,580 So it would be fit, she has a history of trauma, 525 00:49:18,955 --> 00:49:21,416 and I can say what we're doing for her on the unit, is 526 00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:23,752 we're treating it with medication. We're 527 00:49:24,002 --> 00:49:26,421 giving her psycho-therapy, creating a safe environment. 528 00:49:27,005 --> 00:49:29,216 We're seen her before, this runs its course 529 00:49:29,466 --> 00:49:30,550 and she gets better. 530 00:49:30,634 --> 00:49:34,179 And we don't take a position on during the treatment on, 531 00:49:34,262 --> 00:49:35,847 is this really Satan bothering you, 532 00:49:35,972 --> 00:49:38,809 or is this you really being tormented by your illness. 533 00:49:38,934 --> 00:49:41,978 The person is expressing a pathology 534 00:49:42,062 --> 00:49:43,939 that is understood as possession. 535 00:49:44,022 --> 00:49:45,732 She understands it as possession. 536 00:49:45,816 --> 00:49:47,109 She group understands possession. 537 00:49:47,401 --> 00:49:51,154 Our field of psychiatry can understand it a possession 538 00:49:51,238 --> 00:49:54,241 just on the virtue of what she is presenting. 539 00:49:54,408 --> 00:49:55,492 The phenomenon, 540 00:49:55,742 --> 00:49:57,869 without having to take any kind of stance 541 00:49:58,286 --> 00:50:00,414 on whether there actually are 542 00:50:00,497 --> 00:50:02,040 demons, spirits, because 543 00:50:02,666 --> 00:50:04,793 this kind of possession is attributed to 544 00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:09,673 Arabic spirits, Jewish dead people 545 00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:11,341 Christian dead people, 546 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,301 forces, animals... 547 00:50:13,385 --> 00:50:16,054 all over the world, there are many different kinds of possessions. 548 00:50:16,138 --> 00:50:18,807 She just has a certain belief in the origin of the possession. 549 00:50:19,474 --> 00:50:20,976 It was a revelation to me, 550 00:50:21,476 --> 00:50:23,562 that the psychiatric diagnosis 551 00:50:23,854 --> 00:50:25,355 of Christina's condition 552 00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:26,898 is recognized 553 00:50:27,232 --> 00:50:29,901 around the world as demonic possession. 554 00:50:30,736 --> 00:50:34,614 I've never met anyone that I would say, "Oh that person needs to be exorcised." 555 00:50:34,698 --> 00:50:36,700 I think that phenomenon exists. 556 00:50:36,783 --> 00:50:39,161 I think it's extremely rare but I think it exists. 557 00:50:39,327 --> 00:50:42,497 And I'll say this, speaking of auxiliary Bishop of this region... 558 00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:44,916 I get people writing to me, 559 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,962 concerned about a loved one, concerned about a son or a daughter. 560 00:50:49,296 --> 00:50:50,630 Somebody concerned about himself. 561 00:50:50,797 --> 00:50:52,591 I got these strange things going on, 562 00:50:52,841 --> 00:50:53,675 what should I do? 563 00:50:53,759 --> 00:50:56,344 So, I get those letters in this very place. 564 00:50:56,803 --> 00:50:58,805 So, I acknowledge the reality of it. 565 00:50:59,222 --> 00:51:02,976 Would you have any misgivings about 566 00:51:03,518 --> 00:51:08,523 recommending a person in extreme spiritual disease to an exorcist? 567 00:51:08,732 --> 00:51:10,859 Or would you recommend they see a psychiatrist? 568 00:51:11,443 --> 00:51:13,904 I think in our case today, we would want to eliminate 569 00:51:14,154 --> 00:51:16,573 the physiological, the psychological and in fact 570 00:51:16,656 --> 00:51:20,786 what happens in a church, we have teams of people that will look in a particular case 571 00:51:21,161 --> 00:51:23,455 and that team will involve usually a physician, 572 00:51:23,705 --> 00:51:27,375 usually a psychologist, psychiatrist, etc. and a priest. 573 00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:33,089 But, the natural has to be eliminated before we get to the supernatural. 574 00:51:33,256 --> 00:51:36,134 If I started crawling up the walls... 575 00:51:36,218 --> 00:51:40,305 -Yeah. Yeah. -And, or, moving around on the ground like a snake... 576 00:51:41,598 --> 00:51:43,350 -What would you do? -I'd call the police. 577 00:51:45,268 --> 00:51:48,230 If I tell you that someone has within them... 578 00:51:48,939 --> 00:51:50,941 they are possessed by a demon, 579 00:51:51,358 --> 00:51:53,485 what goes through your mind? 580 00:51:53,693 --> 00:51:55,779 I think what goes through my mind is that there are 581 00:51:55,862 --> 00:51:58,698 more things in heaven and earth that are dreamed of in your philosophy. 582 00:51:58,865 --> 00:52:01,117 This is a strange world that we live in 583 00:52:01,201 --> 00:52:05,997 and to a degree we can know it and control it and we can analyze it, 584 00:52:06,248 --> 00:52:09,042 but there's a dimension to this world that is strange. 585 00:52:09,292 --> 00:52:11,127 And beyond our capacity to control. 586 00:52:11,378 --> 00:52:12,963 This person's possessed by a demon. 587 00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:15,715 Does that make sense in scientific terminology? 588 00:52:16,049 --> 00:52:17,133 Probably not. 589 00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:20,887 But having walked through the scientific, all the way, 590 00:52:21,221 --> 00:52:23,181 do I come to a limit where I say, 591 00:52:23,723 --> 00:52:26,852 maybe there's something beyond what I can manage here. 592 00:52:27,394 --> 00:52:31,606 And I should be open to that if it manifests itself. 593 00:52:32,148 --> 00:52:34,526 Can you accept the idea 594 00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:38,196 of demonic possession of a... 595 00:52:38,947 --> 00:52:41,533 a demon, a devil, Satan 596 00:52:41,616 --> 00:52:45,495 taking over the soul of another human being. 597 00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:48,290 That's not the devils taking over your soul, 598 00:52:48,373 --> 00:52:50,083 that's the devil, or whatever you wanna call it... 599 00:52:51,543 --> 00:52:52,627 seizing your body. 600 00:52:52,711 --> 00:52:54,588 The way they take over the soul 601 00:52:54,754 --> 00:52:56,882 is by tempting you to sin. 602 00:52:57,173 --> 00:52:59,968 That's how they get you 'cause you're using your freewill to do evil. 603 00:53:00,886 --> 00:53:04,180 What is the conslusion you came to 604 00:53:04,431 --> 00:53:08,685 finally when you completed your last book. 605 00:53:08,768 --> 00:53:12,772 How do you have the universe that we've got with so much evil in it? 606 00:53:13,648 --> 00:53:17,193 When you got a good god and a magnificent god, 607 00:53:17,319 --> 00:53:19,070 then how does this evil occur? 608 00:53:19,279 --> 00:53:22,365 I believe that a trans-human... 609 00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:25,869 power of evil exits. 610 00:53:27,078 --> 00:53:31,541 Do you believe that there is inherent evil 611 00:53:32,125 --> 00:53:34,169 in all of us, let's say. 612 00:53:34,502 --> 00:53:36,713 Evil is like a shadow, it's like a parasite. 613 00:53:37,088 --> 00:53:39,049 So, it is never inherent evil. 614 00:53:39,424 --> 00:53:41,927 The devil is good 615 00:53:42,302 --> 00:53:46,014 that's to say in his being, in his intelligence, in his will, 616 00:53:46,348 --> 00:53:47,474 in his... 617 00:53:49,184 --> 00:53:52,103 ontological integrity, the devil is good. 618 00:53:52,479 --> 00:53:54,356 But the goodness is become warped. 619 00:53:54,814 --> 00:53:57,692 If a person does not believe 620 00:53:59,361 --> 00:54:02,072 and yet they manifest these symptoms, 621 00:54:02,447 --> 00:54:04,574 can they be exorcised? 622 00:54:04,658 --> 00:54:08,578 Well, I wouldn't say in the full sense of the term, doing a full exorcism. 623 00:54:08,745 --> 00:54:11,748 Someone is really possessed by a dark power, 624 00:54:12,082 --> 00:54:13,500 their own personality has been kind of, 625 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,877 put on hold with sermon suspense. 626 00:54:16,336 --> 00:54:19,089 And what's being addressed is the demon within them. 627 00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:21,216 Speaking to the devil, I mean, heck, 628 00:54:21,424 --> 00:54:23,259 people like Father Amorth, maybe can do that. 629 00:54:23,343 --> 00:54:25,303 I would never dare to do it. 630 00:54:25,387 --> 00:54:27,180 I'm not there spiritually. 631 00:54:27,263 --> 00:54:29,057 I think that's a very dangerous thing. 632 00:54:30,517 --> 00:54:31,434 What did you say? 633 00:54:31,518 --> 00:54:33,186 -I wouldn't do it. -Wouldn't do what? 634 00:54:33,478 --> 00:54:34,813 Speak to the devil. 635 00:54:34,896 --> 00:54:36,898 -I mean, if I-- -As in, an exorcism? 636 00:54:37,065 --> 00:54:39,901 I don't think I'd be any good at it. I wouldn't wanna do it. 637 00:54:39,985 --> 00:54:40,944 -And... -Why not? 638 00:54:41,611 --> 00:54:42,862 I think it's dangerous ground. 639 00:54:42,946 --> 00:54:44,364 You gotta be really really holy. 640 00:54:44,572 --> 00:54:45,824 It's in the scriptures. 641 00:54:45,949 --> 00:54:48,952 -I know but Jesus... absolutely. -Jesus exorcised demons. 642 00:54:49,035 --> 00:54:52,914 But that's why the church is very careful to choose very holy people. 643 00:54:53,456 --> 00:54:55,125 -And... -And you're not? 644 00:54:55,917 --> 00:54:58,294 I don't think I'm ready for that. 645 00:54:58,586 --> 00:54:59,587 I'd be afraid. 646 00:54:59,671 --> 00:55:03,925 How much higher can you be than the Bishop... 647 00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:08,179 No, I'm not joking, I'm... 648 00:55:08,263 --> 00:55:11,391 I'm really impressed with your saying that. 649 00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:16,730 -But, you mean there's a higher level of spirituality? -I do. 650 00:55:16,813 --> 00:55:20,775 Yeah, you wanna find someone who is really at a higher level of spiritual attainment 651 00:55:20,859 --> 00:55:23,403 and that's a dicey business. 652 00:55:23,486 --> 00:55:25,488 I mean, getting in close quarters with the devil. 653 00:55:25,864 --> 00:55:26,948 -This why... -Why? 654 00:55:27,073 --> 00:55:29,659 -Well, because he's the devil... -You have the power of Jesus. 655 00:55:29,826 --> 00:55:31,786 I do indeed, but, 656 00:55:32,746 --> 00:55:35,415 the church wants someone who is really personally holy 657 00:55:35,498 --> 00:55:37,876 to wield that power most effectively. 658 00:55:38,001 --> 00:55:43,548 So you think it would have been possible for the demon to enter you? 659 00:55:43,798 --> 00:55:44,883 Sure it's possible. 660 00:55:45,216 --> 00:55:46,551 I think the much more likelier... 661 00:55:46,634 --> 00:55:48,344 Is it a part of your belief system? 662 00:55:48,428 --> 00:55:50,430 Sure. I mean it's possible. Yeah. 663 00:55:50,764 --> 00:55:55,351 Has it ever occured to you that all of this work that you've done 664 00:55:55,435 --> 00:55:58,813 could expose you to possession? 665 00:55:59,147 --> 00:56:01,608 The year I was finishing off, The Prince of Darkness, 666 00:56:01,858 --> 00:56:06,237 I had a attack of serious depression. 667 00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:10,200 and it seems to be that the fact that all the evil forces you know... 668 00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:11,826 it wasn't possession, it was just... 669 00:56:12,202 --> 00:56:14,412 one of the causes of depression. 670 00:56:14,746 --> 00:56:17,957 But it was certainly very depressing to work with evil all the time, you know. 671 00:56:18,291 --> 00:56:22,003 So, I had this very serious depression and um, 672 00:56:22,629 --> 00:56:27,342 that's why I say to people don't concentrate on the devil, I did it and I 673 00:56:28,009 --> 00:56:29,135 probably wouldn't do it again. 674 00:56:29,511 --> 00:56:32,013 Concentrate on the good, concentrate on god, 675 00:56:32,097 --> 00:56:33,765 concentrate on the positive 676 00:56:33,932 --> 00:56:37,393 and don't think that much about the evil side. 677 00:56:37,811 --> 00:56:41,523 What you said to me is one of the most interesting 678 00:56:41,898 --> 00:56:44,984 statements I have ever heard from a man of your 679 00:56:45,276 --> 00:56:46,694 position and standing. 680 00:56:46,861 --> 00:56:51,074 Which is, I don't think I'm ready to deal with the devil. 681 00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:52,367 No, I'd be afraid of it. 682 00:56:52,450 --> 00:56:54,869 I'd be afraid of it. I need a lot more spiritual 683 00:56:55,203 --> 00:56:57,956 training and a lot more spiritual maturity. 684 00:56:58,039 --> 00:56:59,958 No, and I don't mean that in some flip way. 685 00:57:00,041 --> 00:57:02,127 -I understand... -I'm already a material person but 686 00:57:02,210 --> 00:57:03,211 I don't think... 687 00:57:03,586 --> 00:57:07,382 I think you need to be really at a high level of spiritual attainment 688 00:57:07,715 --> 00:57:09,551 to enter into the list with the devil. 689 00:57:11,678 --> 00:57:13,179 Before everyone left, 690 00:57:13,346 --> 00:57:16,015 Christina's family asked for her father 691 00:57:16,307 --> 00:57:18,184 to be blessed by Father Amorth. 692 00:57:23,356 --> 00:57:28,111 It's okay now. Let's pray for your papa. 693 00:57:54,721 --> 00:57:56,431 It was a shocking moment. 694 00:57:57,265 --> 00:57:59,267 Christina was not cured. 695 00:58:04,647 --> 00:58:07,942 Once again she fell into a trance state. 696 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,218 When her mother sat for her blessing, 697 00:58:33,343 --> 00:58:34,802 it only got worse. 698 00:59:08,169 --> 00:59:11,714 The man in the foreground is Christina's boyfriend. 699 00:59:11,881 --> 00:59:13,258 Davidge. 700 00:59:14,008 --> 00:59:15,301 Wait! 701 00:59:17,887 --> 00:59:22,976 It seemed to me that her reactions were even more violent than before. 702 00:59:31,901 --> 00:59:34,028 This is an actual exorcism. 703 00:59:34,571 --> 00:59:36,823 It's different from all the movies. 704 00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:39,534 This is not fiction. 705 00:59:39,659 --> 00:59:42,203 It was harrowing to witness. 706 00:59:50,003 --> 00:59:53,548 There are many people who suffer like Christina. 707 00:59:53,923 --> 00:59:56,884 From what they believe is the same affliction. 708 00:59:57,719 --> 00:59:59,554 But where does this come from? 709 01:00:00,096 --> 01:00:05,143 Is this really the random invasion of an external evil force? 710 01:00:21,451 --> 01:00:24,203 And then suddenly it was over. 711 01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:27,248 But for how long? 712 01:00:29,876 --> 01:00:31,711 Father Amorth had taken sick, 713 01:00:32,086 --> 01:00:33,504 and was in the hospital. 714 01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:35,465 But I made an appointment 715 01:00:35,548 --> 01:00:37,800 to meet with Christina in Rome. 716 01:00:38,134 --> 01:00:40,720 To do a more in-depth interview with her. 717 01:00:41,554 --> 01:00:44,223 She called my line producer Francesco, 718 01:00:44,641 --> 01:00:46,392 and rescheduled the meeting 719 01:00:47,018 --> 01:00:48,436 to a small town. 720 01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:51,356 200 miles south-east of Rome 721 01:00:51,981 --> 01:00:53,816 called Alatri. 722 01:00:54,776 --> 01:00:57,528 Alatri is an historic village 723 01:00:58,029 --> 01:00:59,238 perched on a hill 724 01:00:59,489 --> 01:01:01,658 overlooking distant mountains. 725 01:01:02,950 --> 01:01:05,036 The central part of the village 726 01:01:05,495 --> 01:01:08,706 is surrounded by massive Etruscan walls, 727 01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:11,959 pieced together without morder. 728 01:01:12,752 --> 01:01:15,338 Like a giant jigsaw puzzle. 729 01:01:17,173 --> 01:01:20,510 The narrow alleyways and Cobblestone streets 730 01:01:20,718 --> 01:01:22,929 are lined with small houses. 731 01:01:23,513 --> 01:01:27,600 Many of them are adorned with oil paintings of the Saints. 732 01:01:29,102 --> 01:01:30,853 This is a religious town 733 01:01:31,187 --> 01:01:32,980 in an old-world way. 734 01:01:36,776 --> 01:01:38,486 We had to walk about a mile 735 01:01:38,945 --> 01:01:40,488 upto the top of the hill. 736 01:01:41,072 --> 01:01:44,117 To the acropolis where the meeting was to take place. 737 01:01:46,244 --> 01:01:48,204 Within it is the Cathedral. 738 01:01:49,580 --> 01:01:51,666 Considered a sacred place. 739 01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:54,669 We were to meet Christina in the park, 740 01:01:55,044 --> 01:01:57,922 in front of the 12th Century basilica. 741 01:01:58,965 --> 01:02:00,675 We arrived on time. 742 01:02:00,842 --> 01:02:02,677 But Christina wasn't there. 743 01:02:03,553 --> 01:02:04,679 And so we waited. 744 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,224 It was a 120 degrees in the shade. 745 01:02:09,225 --> 01:02:12,145 Francesco called Christina on her cell phone. 746 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,189 She answered quickly sounding angry. 747 01:02:15,523 --> 01:02:17,275 "Where are you?" She screamed. 748 01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:20,194 "We're at the park," Francesco answered. 749 01:02:20,278 --> 01:02:21,446 "Where are you?" 750 01:02:22,196 --> 01:02:24,031 "I'm where I told you I'd be." 751 01:02:24,323 --> 01:02:26,075 "At Santa Maria Maggiore. 752 01:02:26,284 --> 01:02:28,411 The church in the town square." 753 01:02:29,662 --> 01:02:31,914 I didn't take my camera inside. 754 01:02:32,749 --> 01:02:35,668 So this is my memory of what happened. 755 01:02:35,752 --> 01:02:39,380 On July 4th, 2016. 756 01:02:39,964 --> 01:02:43,593 When Francesco and I entered the church, 757 01:02:46,429 --> 01:02:48,514 it was freezing cold inside 758 01:02:48,806 --> 01:02:50,892 and we were trapped in a living nightmare. 759 01:02:52,852 --> 01:02:54,353 Christina was screaming. 760 01:02:54,437 --> 01:02:57,815 She slithered on the floor in a cheap plastic chair. 761 01:02:58,024 --> 01:03:00,526 Pulling her boyfriend Davide with her. 762 01:03:02,195 --> 01:03:05,448 He tried to hold her around the waist and throw. 763 01:03:05,531 --> 01:03:08,117 "Give us back your film!" He shouted at me. 764 01:03:08,242 --> 01:03:11,037 "No! I want it shown," she screamed 765 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,914 in the voice of the demon. 766 01:03:13,206 --> 01:03:14,415 I was terrified. 767 01:03:14,916 --> 01:03:18,795 Davide stared at me, "If you don't give it back to us, 768 01:03:19,003 --> 01:03:20,254 we'll kill you. 769 01:03:20,338 --> 01:03:23,424 We'll find your family and we'll kill you all!" 770 01:03:27,804 --> 01:03:30,890 It was the first time anyone had threatened my life. 771 01:03:31,724 --> 01:03:34,060 Francesco and I left the church. 772 01:03:34,602 --> 01:03:35,812 Left Alatri. 773 01:03:37,104 --> 01:03:40,358 For a half hour, neither of us said a word. 774 01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:43,945 The sweat and the fear were clinging to us, 775 01:03:44,612 --> 01:03:46,030 all the way back to Rome. 776 01:03:52,995 --> 01:03:56,332 At the end of July, 2016, 777 01:03:56,499 --> 01:04:00,002 before he could perform Christina's 10th exorcism, 778 01:04:00,503 --> 01:04:04,131 Father Amorth contracted pneumonia while he was in the hospital. 779 01:04:05,424 --> 01:04:07,885 Two months later, he died. 780 01:04:09,846 --> 01:04:12,723 Thousands of people came from all over Italy 781 01:04:13,015 --> 01:04:14,183 to his funeral. 782 01:04:17,562 --> 01:04:23,192 We are grateful to Father Amorth for the good he did in the name of Christ. 783 01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:30,575 In 1991, Father Gabriele gathered a group of exorcists from around the world to Italy. 784 01:04:35,997 --> 01:04:41,878 Some of them are with us today. 785 01:05:17,914 --> 01:05:21,417 He once told me he could not wait to reach heaven, 786 01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:23,920 so he could beat the devil with a cane. 787 01:05:24,587 --> 01:05:27,048 When he passed away... 788 01:05:30,009 --> 01:05:34,138 I had a lot of different feelings. 789 01:05:34,847 --> 01:05:41,812 I wouldn't call it pain. It was like when you lose someone close to you. 790 01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:52,615 But I didn't feel bad that this person who helped me so much is gone. 791 01:05:54,408 --> 01:05:57,328 It's like he's still here. 792 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,459 I don't think he's gone. 793 01:06:25,523 --> 01:06:26,607 I hope to see you. 794 01:06:26,691 --> 01:06:29,402 Will you tell, Father, "I hope to see you on the 30th." 795 01:06:38,244 --> 01:06:40,997 He was the most spiritual man I ever met. 796 01:06:42,081 --> 01:06:45,459 Like everyone who knew him, I'll never forget him. 797 01:06:46,877 --> 01:06:48,421 He enriched my life. 798 01:06:53,426 --> 01:06:55,052 But what about Christina? 799 01:06:56,262 --> 01:06:57,555 As of this moment, 800 01:06:58,097 --> 01:07:00,516 Christina's suffering continues. 801 01:07:01,142 --> 01:07:04,145 I've reached out to her without success. 802 01:07:05,021 --> 01:07:06,605 Friends in Italy tell me, 803 01:07:06,981 --> 01:07:09,442 she's continued to pursue exorcism 804 01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:11,318 with local priests. 805 01:07:11,861 --> 01:07:15,156 But Father Amorth was in a class by himself. 806 01:07:16,323 --> 01:07:17,616 Like the doctors, 807 01:07:18,117 --> 01:07:21,912 I can't tell you exactly what's wrong with Christina. 808 01:07:23,247 --> 01:07:24,582 My own belief, 809 01:07:25,041 --> 01:07:29,503 is that there is a far deeper dimension to the universe. 810 01:07:30,588 --> 01:07:32,339 We know there is evil. 811 01:07:33,382 --> 01:07:35,092 There is also good. 812 01:07:35,968 --> 01:07:37,553 And if there are demons, 813 01:07:38,804 --> 01:07:40,431 there must be angels.