0 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:20,000 1 00:00:07,675 --> 00:00:10,476 - We were trying to say we do not wanna be nuns 2 00:00:10,478 --> 00:00:12,344 cloistered in a seminary. 3 00:00:12,346 --> 00:00:14,279 We want to be out in the bigger world, 4 00:00:14,281 --> 00:00:18,484 but almost in a subconscious way. 5 00:00:18,586 --> 00:00:21,687 We just knew we wanted to be free. 6 00:00:24,558 --> 00:00:26,291 (sniffling) 7 00:00:33,367 --> 00:00:35,267 Boy, that really touched a nerve. 8 00:00:36,670 --> 00:00:40,139 You know, somehow when I said that word, "free," 9 00:00:40,508 --> 00:00:45,044 it made a connection through the decades. 10 00:00:45,046 --> 00:00:46,779 ♪ Do you know 11 00:00:47,448 --> 00:00:49,848 ♪ Do you know what it means 12 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:52,584 ♪ To be free 13 00:00:54,855 --> 00:00:58,624 ♪ Say the cost of living's high 14 00:00:58,626 --> 00:01:02,027 ♪ Check the price tag on a dream 15 00:01:04,165 --> 00:01:05,764 We had just lived through the most 16 00:01:05,766 --> 00:01:08,867 tumultuous year in the history of America. 17 00:01:08,869 --> 00:01:11,937 ♪ Fight in every kind of war 18 00:01:12,673 --> 00:01:16,108 ♪ Our freedom's at a premium 19 00:01:16,110 --> 00:01:20,012 ♪ Hope is all I can afford 20 00:01:20,114 --> 00:01:23,582 - For our graduation, we were the class of 1969. 21 00:01:23,584 --> 00:01:25,951 We decided we wanted to try something 22 00:01:25,953 --> 00:01:28,120 that had never been done before. 23 00:01:28,122 --> 00:01:31,123 Not a yearbook, but a Yearbox 24 00:01:31,125 --> 00:01:33,125 full of large, loose pages. 25 00:01:33,127 --> 00:01:35,861 Pages you could display like a portfolio, 26 00:01:35,863 --> 00:01:38,530 and you could arrange them however you wanted. 27 00:01:38,532 --> 00:01:41,834 We decided we would stage our own photoshoots. 28 00:01:42,336 --> 00:01:45,137 These photos are the inspiration for this movie. 29 00:01:45,139 --> 00:01:49,541 ♪ Do you know what it means to be fulfilled 30 00:01:49,844 --> 00:01:51,877 - [Voiceover] I wanted it all, and I wanted 31 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:54,179 to see if I could do it all. 32 00:01:55,483 --> 00:01:57,749 - [Voiceover] We discovered freedom wasn't free. 33 00:02:00,688 --> 00:02:02,821 I was chasing a dream. 34 00:02:02,823 --> 00:02:06,191 ♪ My mother and my father 35 00:02:06,193 --> 00:02:09,328 ♪ Are telling me what I should be 36 00:02:10,064 --> 00:02:13,565 ♪ I just wanna be happy and 37 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:16,201 ♪ Make some good before I leave ♪ 38 00:02:16,203 --> 00:02:20,873 - Well, I think as women, we have a unique opportunity 39 00:02:21,108 --> 00:02:24,810 to tell the story of women who went to a women's college. 40 00:02:24,912 --> 00:02:26,778 Very few exist anymore. 41 00:02:27,414 --> 00:02:31,016 And give our perspective on how 42 00:02:31,018 --> 00:02:34,753 our lives have changed, or how we changed the world. 43 00:02:34,755 --> 00:02:36,788 - Even to get to the point where you could 44 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:41,126 express a feeling of outrage, that was an achievement. 45 00:02:41,195 --> 00:02:44,696 And there were all these midsts about women and their role, 46 00:02:44,698 --> 00:02:48,233 and you kind of had to keep breaking through that. 47 00:02:48,235 --> 00:02:51,336 - What I also could not appreciate at the time 48 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:54,540 was how unboxed my life would be. 49 00:02:54,542 --> 00:02:57,910 ♪ If that mockingbird don't sing 50 00:02:57,912 --> 00:03:01,713 ♪ Mama's gonna buy you a diamond ring ♪ 51 00:03:03,751 --> 00:03:05,984 - [Voiceover] I felt like I was at the beginning 52 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:07,786 of something really exciting. 53 00:03:08,255 --> 00:03:10,122 - [Voiceover] You know, I really wanted to 54 00:03:10,124 --> 00:03:13,525 spread my wings and have a big life. 55 00:03:13,527 --> 00:03:16,228 - [Voiceover] I was excited, I was scared. 56 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:19,531 First person in my immediate family to go to college. 57 00:03:19,533 --> 00:03:21,366 - [Voiceover] Father worked at a factory. 58 00:03:21,368 --> 00:03:23,068 He made tires. 59 00:03:23,871 --> 00:03:25,804 - [Voiceover] Before I went to Skidmore, 60 00:03:25,806 --> 00:03:28,740 I checked two books out at the Manchester Public Library. 61 00:03:28,742 --> 00:03:31,009 Amy Vanderbilt and Emily Post, 62 00:03:31,011 --> 00:03:32,711 because I didn't want to make a mistake. 63 00:03:32,713 --> 00:03:34,947 - [Voiceover] Meanwhile, outside of the shelter 64 00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:37,683 of our college, there were cataclysmic events 65 00:03:37,685 --> 00:03:40,552 taking place all over the world that were gonna 66 00:03:40,554 --> 00:03:43,422 affect all of us and change our lives. 67 00:03:45,492 --> 00:03:46,959 - [Voiceover] The thing that stands out to me 68 00:03:46,961 --> 00:03:49,895 when I look back is how young I was. 69 00:03:49,964 --> 00:03:54,299 This suit is a pretty red, and I wanted the red 70 00:03:54,301 --> 00:03:56,702 as saying, "I'm here." 71 00:03:56,704 --> 00:04:00,339 When you see Afro-Americans and the numbers aren't there, 72 00:04:00,341 --> 00:04:02,407 you show up two, three, or four in a group 73 00:04:02,409 --> 00:04:05,277 or whatever and people start watching you. 74 00:04:05,279 --> 00:04:06,678 It's like they've never seen black people 75 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,480 before or something. 76 00:04:08,482 --> 00:04:11,250 - My parents put me on a plane in Beirut, Lebanon. 77 00:04:11,252 --> 00:04:12,451 I didn't see them for another year 78 00:04:12,453 --> 00:04:14,419 'cause we couldn't afford to fly me back. 79 00:04:14,421 --> 00:04:16,955 - So we pull up to the dorm, 80 00:04:16,957 --> 00:04:20,325 and these girls are on the porch 81 00:04:20,928 --> 00:04:24,763 and they're waiting and they start clapping, and-- 82 00:04:24,765 --> 00:04:27,432 - My roommate was a wonderful young woman 83 00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:30,068 from Long Island, her father was a physician. 84 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:32,271 The thing that I remember about her 85 00:04:32,273 --> 00:04:35,107 was her coming in with a clothes rack, 86 00:04:35,109 --> 00:04:38,310 rolling clothes rack, full of clothes 87 00:04:38,312 --> 00:04:41,079 with still their price tags on. 88 00:04:41,081 --> 00:04:45,384 And I knew then that I was in a brave, new world. (laughs) 89 00:04:45,686 --> 00:04:47,586 - And they charge out and my big sister 90 00:04:47,588 --> 00:04:50,489 comes running out as I get out of the car. 91 00:04:50,491 --> 00:04:52,824 Obviously she knows me, but I'm still trying 92 00:04:52,826 --> 00:04:55,294 to figure out which one is she. 93 00:04:55,296 --> 00:04:57,696 And she runs up and she hugs me, 94 00:04:57,698 --> 00:05:00,032 and the others swoop down and the luggage 95 00:05:00,034 --> 00:05:04,002 is swooped out, and they're talking and they're hugging 96 00:05:04,004 --> 00:05:05,704 and my parents are looking at each-- 97 00:05:05,706 --> 00:05:08,940 I saw the eye contact instantaneously 98 00:05:08,942 --> 00:05:12,210 between them of, "Thank God. 99 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,414 "She's being treated like everybody else." 100 00:05:15,416 --> 00:05:20,185 I think my mother was close to tears. Of relief. 101 00:05:20,788 --> 00:05:22,654 - I came from a very proper family, 102 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:24,056 and you did things the right way. 103 00:05:24,058 --> 00:05:28,460 I curtsied when I was introduced to people growing up. 104 00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:31,830 - Social life in high school was very... 105 00:05:32,333 --> 00:05:33,632 I really enjoyed it. 106 00:05:33,634 --> 00:05:35,901 It was just like, you know, 107 00:05:35,903 --> 00:05:38,403 American Bandstand. (laughs) It was... 108 00:05:38,405 --> 00:05:40,372 - At that time, everybody was trying to fit in. 109 00:05:40,374 --> 00:05:42,808 Trying to look as preppy as possible. 110 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:45,410 I was very surprised to find out there was a gal 111 00:05:45,412 --> 00:05:49,247 on my floor who already had gentlemen callers. 112 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:52,551 She had about five guys that came to see her. 113 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:54,252 And I said, "How do they all know 114 00:05:54,254 --> 00:05:55,687 "she was already here?" She was really beautiful. 115 00:05:55,689 --> 00:05:57,589 Really beautiful, striking blonde. 116 00:05:57,591 --> 00:06:00,192 We were all wearing sweaters and skirts 117 00:06:00,194 --> 00:06:03,095 and she was wearing a slinky cocktail dress, 118 00:06:03,097 --> 00:06:06,732 and these guys from Dartmouth were already waiting for her, 119 00:06:07,101 --> 00:06:09,901 and I felt totally unsophisticated. 120 00:06:11,572 --> 00:06:13,405 I realized I had a lot to learn. 121 00:06:16,410 --> 00:06:19,044 - And I said to my wife, "1,400 young women? 122 00:06:19,046 --> 00:06:21,546 "Really? What kind of problems could they have?" 123 00:06:21,915 --> 00:06:24,549 And she said, "Oh, you will learn." 124 00:06:25,085 --> 00:06:26,351 And I did. 125 00:06:26,553 --> 00:06:29,421 - And the class of '69 was actually 126 00:06:29,423 --> 00:06:32,357 in the dawning of that era. 127 00:06:32,359 --> 00:06:35,293 They began to have the thought 128 00:06:35,295 --> 00:06:38,930 that they could control more of their destiny 129 00:06:38,932 --> 00:06:42,534 than they ever had before, than their mothers had, 130 00:06:42,536 --> 00:06:44,870 and certainly their grandmothers had. 131 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:47,973 - We were the transition from the old to the new 132 00:06:47,975 --> 00:06:50,342 in every sense, doing away with all the rules, 133 00:06:50,344 --> 00:06:53,845 basically, in that four-year span. 134 00:06:53,914 --> 00:06:55,814 - Pretty much from the get-go 135 00:06:55,816 --> 00:06:58,583 of arriving on Skidmore campus, 136 00:06:58,585 --> 00:07:02,554 there was a feel, a nascent feeling of liberation. 137 00:07:02,556 --> 00:07:04,890 We were on our own, we were on our own two feet, 138 00:07:04,892 --> 00:07:07,659 and we had to learn to speak up for what we believed. 139 00:07:08,162 --> 00:07:11,396 But gee, it was a long time before I felt really 140 00:07:11,398 --> 00:07:14,299 comfortable speaking out in class, even. 141 00:07:14,301 --> 00:07:15,734 I was a shy person. 142 00:07:16,703 --> 00:07:19,638 And eventually, you find your voice. 143 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,174 - The possibliity that a girl could come up 144 00:07:22,176 --> 00:07:24,643 with her own version of her own voice, 145 00:07:24,645 --> 00:07:25,977 I think I was talking to myself. 146 00:07:25,979 --> 00:07:27,245 I was about me. 147 00:07:27,247 --> 00:07:29,748 I was looking for a way, I didn't want to just be 148 00:07:30,417 --> 00:07:32,150 like a cookie cutter person. 149 00:07:32,152 --> 00:07:35,620 - All of it allowed me to learn 150 00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:39,024 that you could not, nothing would intimidate me. 151 00:07:39,359 --> 00:07:41,593 - Which I think a lot of the '60s was about, 152 00:07:41,595 --> 00:07:43,462 it's like you're doing things and there's 153 00:07:43,464 --> 00:07:47,766 a little danger in them, taking risks. 154 00:07:47,768 --> 00:07:49,634 - Well, all hell broke loose 155 00:07:49,636 --> 00:07:53,738 between 1965 and 1969. 156 00:07:54,107 --> 00:07:57,309 It was an entirely new world. 157 00:07:57,945 --> 00:08:00,111 Dormitories were now open to men, 158 00:08:00,113 --> 00:08:03,415 house mothers were sent packing, 159 00:08:03,417 --> 00:08:06,384 students now ran the dorms. 160 00:08:06,386 --> 00:08:11,022 Women now had men and their dates staying for the weekend. 161 00:08:11,024 --> 00:08:12,624 Everything had changed. 162 00:08:12,626 --> 00:08:14,626 - And I was called up before the Honor Board 163 00:08:14,628 --> 00:08:17,929 for having alcohol on campus. 164 00:08:17,931 --> 00:08:20,465 And they told me that I would be grounded 165 00:08:20,467 --> 00:08:23,702 and that I had to resign as President of the Senior Class. 166 00:08:23,971 --> 00:08:25,704 And I said, "Well, you didn't elect me. 167 00:08:25,706 --> 00:08:27,672 "You can't un-elect me." 168 00:08:27,674 --> 00:08:30,141 They said, "Then we're gonna have a vote." 169 00:08:30,143 --> 00:08:32,110 I said, "Fine. Here's the vote. 170 00:08:32,112 --> 00:08:35,447 "The vote is you keep me in, 171 00:08:35,516 --> 00:08:37,115 "We get booze on campus. 172 00:08:37,184 --> 00:08:39,050 "You kick me out, 173 00:08:39,786 --> 00:08:42,787 "You win. I'm out." 174 00:08:42,789 --> 00:08:44,890 The faculty is one-third, 175 00:08:44,892 --> 00:08:47,459 the administration is a third, 176 00:08:47,461 --> 00:08:48,793 and the students are a third. 177 00:08:48,795 --> 00:08:52,297 All three parts voted for 178 00:08:52,933 --> 00:08:55,233 allowing you to drink on campus. 179 00:08:55,769 --> 00:08:57,135 It was a great victory. 180 00:08:57,137 --> 00:08:59,471 Dean Olds had called me in before the vote, 181 00:08:59,473 --> 00:09:00,939 and she said, "Why did you do this?" 182 00:09:00,941 --> 00:09:04,142 I said, "Look, it was just celebrating my birthday." 183 00:09:04,511 --> 00:09:07,112 And she said, "What did you drink?" 184 00:09:07,114 --> 00:09:10,015 And I said, "Well, Old Crow and whiskey sour mix." 185 00:09:10,017 --> 00:09:13,018 And she goes, "Oh my dear, don't you know? 186 00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:15,153 "Next time, I'll give you more money. 187 00:09:15,155 --> 00:09:18,557 "Old Crow can make you very sick." 188 00:09:19,359 --> 00:09:21,826 - This is how we envisioned our life was going to be. 189 00:09:21,828 --> 00:09:23,295 We were gonna be glamorous, 190 00:09:23,297 --> 00:09:26,097 and still throw back to something vintage 191 00:09:26,099 --> 00:09:29,568 and cool, but now we were out there. 192 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:31,803 And we could do whatever we wanted, 193 00:09:31,805 --> 00:09:34,639 and we were toasting ourselves. 194 00:09:34,641 --> 00:09:36,975 At our first mixer, you wore a sheath and heels. 195 00:09:36,977 --> 00:09:39,244 That was the dress code, a sheath and heels. 196 00:09:39,546 --> 00:09:42,213 Very Mad Men, very sheath and heels. 197 00:09:42,215 --> 00:09:45,650 By the second mixer, you were taping your shoes together. 198 00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:48,119 Remember that, loafers were the thing 199 00:09:48,121 --> 00:09:50,021 and you could beat them up as much as you want, 200 00:09:50,023 --> 00:09:53,325 then you put this like, adhesive, this like bandage adhesive 201 00:09:53,327 --> 00:09:56,127 around them to hold them together, because it was cool 202 00:09:56,129 --> 00:09:58,430 to have the ones that were falling apart. 203 00:09:58,432 --> 00:10:01,132 And it was like one year, everything changed. 204 00:10:01,134 --> 00:10:04,736 While that was liberating, it was also extremely scary. 205 00:10:04,738 --> 00:10:07,639 Before, you were edited and you were funneled into, 206 00:10:07,641 --> 00:10:09,641 you could be a teacher, you could be a nurse, 207 00:10:09,643 --> 00:10:14,379 you could be a buyer, but now, those rules were off. 208 00:10:14,381 --> 00:10:18,016 Now the rule was, you could be anything you want. 209 00:10:18,018 --> 00:10:21,753 I was like, "Okay, I don't know what I want." (laughs) 210 00:10:21,755 --> 00:10:24,990 All right, it's like, "Here's all the flavors of ice cream, 211 00:10:24,992 --> 00:10:27,993 and you go, "I don't know if I like butter pecan." 212 00:10:28,095 --> 00:10:31,096 (rock music) 213 00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:36,668 - The Yearbox, what a wonderful metaphor it was. 214 00:10:37,804 --> 00:10:41,806 These students had come in 1965, 215 00:10:41,808 --> 00:10:45,777 and they were, in some ways, in a box, 216 00:10:45,779 --> 00:10:48,813 in a cage, even, at that time. 217 00:10:48,815 --> 00:10:51,850 A cage of parental discipline. 218 00:10:52,653 --> 00:10:57,188 A cage of very strict college laws. 219 00:10:57,624 --> 00:10:58,890 - Ah, here it is. 220 00:10:58,892 --> 00:11:00,558 Yearbook in a box, 221 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,461 and how that came about. 222 00:11:03,463 --> 00:11:05,363 You're students. What year are you? 223 00:11:05,365 --> 00:11:06,131 - Seniors. 224 00:11:06,299 --> 00:11:07,666 - Seniors. 225 00:11:07,668 --> 00:11:10,135 Well, when I was a junior, I was tapped by the, 226 00:11:12,072 --> 00:11:15,073 one of the art professors, who was very aware 227 00:11:15,075 --> 00:11:16,941 and sensitive to the yearbook. 228 00:11:16,943 --> 00:11:18,877 Couldn't we do something more 229 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:20,912 than what had always been done? 230 00:11:21,214 --> 00:11:23,715 He never met a project that couldn't be reinvented. 231 00:11:23,717 --> 00:11:24,949 (laughs) 232 00:11:24,951 --> 00:11:28,787 And so he just let me conceptualize. 233 00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:31,122 - Oh, I love how she was trying 234 00:11:31,124 --> 00:11:33,058 to really hold on back there. (laughter) 235 00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:35,927 And everybody else is kind of doing it pretty easily. 236 00:11:36,329 --> 00:11:38,997 - Bob suggested to me to go home 237 00:11:38,999 --> 00:11:41,633 and come up with some new concepts 238 00:11:41,635 --> 00:11:43,401 for what a yearbook could be. 239 00:11:43,403 --> 00:11:44,969 It comes with a responsibility, 240 00:11:44,971 --> 00:11:48,139 perhaps, to reinvent it, 241 00:11:48,141 --> 00:11:50,742 and make a better world. 242 00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:53,745 And we like to think this was a better world. 243 00:11:53,747 --> 00:11:56,047 - That it was a lot about 244 00:11:56,049 --> 00:11:58,516 opening up possibilities, 245 00:11:59,319 --> 00:12:01,219 and thinking outside the box, if you will, 246 00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:04,389 to make a reference to our Yearbox. 247 00:12:05,959 --> 00:12:07,859 And sort of reinventing your life. 248 00:12:08,328 --> 00:12:09,627 (rock music) 249 00:12:09,629 --> 00:12:11,563 - He said, "Skidmore is looking for a 250 00:12:11,565 --> 00:12:14,733 "photographer who would photograph the senior class. 251 00:12:14,735 --> 00:12:16,468 - I mean, all of those photographs 252 00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:20,405 were part of a kind of liberation. 253 00:12:20,841 --> 00:12:23,174 - And you had me write Sedan a letter, 254 00:12:23,176 --> 00:12:25,310 and I remember coming to you in the snack bar 255 00:12:25,312 --> 00:12:29,047 with my response, 'cause we used U.S. mail in those days. 256 00:12:29,049 --> 00:12:30,281 - (laughing) Yeah, right. 257 00:12:30,283 --> 00:12:32,150 - Oh, I got a letter from Sedan. 258 00:12:32,152 --> 00:12:34,886 Oh, he would be very interested in our project. 259 00:12:34,888 --> 00:12:38,389 He'd like me to come to Yale as his guest. 260 00:12:38,692 --> 00:12:41,459 And Bob says, "And stay in the guest room, 261 00:12:41,461 --> 00:12:43,428 "I assume." (laughter) 262 00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:45,964 And that should have tipped me off right away. 263 00:12:45,966 --> 00:12:48,099 This guy was gonna be trouble. 264 00:12:49,603 --> 00:12:51,836 - I was still a bashful young man. 265 00:12:51,838 --> 00:12:56,174 I was the only rooster in the garden, so to speak. 266 00:12:56,176 --> 00:12:57,942 I was in Wonderland. 267 00:12:57,944 --> 00:13:00,145 I thought this would be a nice shoot 268 00:13:00,147 --> 00:13:02,814 because I thought they were gonna take their clothes off 269 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:05,416 in an area where I can see them. 270 00:13:05,852 --> 00:13:09,354 But they all disappeared and came back with the barrels. 271 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:12,490 A lot of them would show me their little 272 00:13:12,492 --> 00:13:16,394 diamond ring, like don't touch me, or don't... 273 00:13:17,330 --> 00:13:20,598 So I knew immediately they were off limits. 274 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,869 One time when we were in a position 275 00:13:24,871 --> 00:13:27,639 of being very intimate, and she said to me, 276 00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:30,942 "I wanna stay a virgin until I get married." 277 00:13:30,944 --> 00:13:32,844 I never got over that. 278 00:13:33,413 --> 00:13:36,114 Occupy Wall Street, occupy this and that. 279 00:13:36,116 --> 00:13:41,119 Very much rooted in the efforts of the '60s generation. 280 00:13:41,788 --> 00:13:43,922 That freedom that came with it. 281 00:13:44,191 --> 00:13:47,492 The freedom of expression, and the freedom 282 00:13:47,494 --> 00:13:51,462 of action among the students was the most important to me. 283 00:13:51,464 --> 00:13:53,898 (gentle flute music) 284 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:06,411 - This architecture speaks to me because it's 285 00:14:06,413 --> 00:14:09,948 fanciful and exuberant, and it's not just a box. 286 00:14:09,950 --> 00:14:12,083 It's architecture unboxed. 287 00:14:12,285 --> 00:14:14,519 The photographic shoot with Sedat, 288 00:14:14,521 --> 00:14:17,422 as I recall, involved him involving me 289 00:14:17,424 --> 00:14:20,792 in a conversation, so not just as he posed 290 00:14:20,794 --> 00:14:24,062 and suggested different places to stand. 291 00:14:26,099 --> 00:14:29,901 He would ask questions, and the question 292 00:14:29,903 --> 00:14:32,837 I remembered when he snapped it was, 293 00:14:33,306 --> 00:14:35,673 "So what are you gonna do next year?" (laughs) 294 00:14:35,675 --> 00:14:37,942 And I said, "I'm going to go live in Italy." 295 00:14:37,944 --> 00:14:39,477 And click. (shutter clicks) 296 00:14:41,581 --> 00:14:44,082 - All the doors were not open. 297 00:14:44,084 --> 00:14:46,117 You can be anything you want, and then, 298 00:14:46,119 --> 00:14:48,419 what makes you think you can do that? 299 00:14:48,421 --> 00:14:52,557 I wasn't aware of barriers for a long time. 300 00:14:52,792 --> 00:14:55,927 It took me a while to realize that I was, 301 00:14:55,929 --> 00:14:58,429 I was beginning to break some barriers. 302 00:14:58,498 --> 00:15:00,565 - Women didn't run for president 303 00:15:00,567 --> 00:15:03,334 of the school, you could be secretary. 304 00:15:04,271 --> 00:15:06,104 Certainly not treasurer, 'cause you don't trust 305 00:15:06,106 --> 00:15:09,540 women with money, at least not in high school in the '60s. 306 00:15:09,542 --> 00:15:11,876 I never really... 307 00:15:12,279 --> 00:15:16,781 thought that I would spend my life 308 00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:20,285 being a mom, a wife, and a worker. 309 00:15:22,022 --> 00:15:24,689 That didn't seem an opportunity for me. 310 00:15:24,691 --> 00:15:26,958 I mean, when I was growing up there was one mother 311 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,460 who worked, and you should've heard 312 00:15:29,462 --> 00:15:31,195 the other mothers talk about her. 313 00:15:31,197 --> 00:15:32,997 - I grew up with up with parents 314 00:15:32,999 --> 00:15:35,366 and a little white picket fence. 315 00:15:35,368 --> 00:15:39,137 You would think that would be how my life worked out. 316 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,406 Not so. 317 00:15:42,342 --> 00:15:44,309 (gentle music) 318 00:15:44,311 --> 00:15:48,346 - I always thought everybody else 319 00:15:48,348 --> 00:15:51,182 knew more than I did, and they kind of, 320 00:15:51,184 --> 00:15:55,720 they had the formulas to the secrets to us, and I didn't. 321 00:15:55,722 --> 00:15:57,689 - I always felt like everybody was 322 00:15:57,691 --> 00:15:59,657 better looking than I was. 323 00:16:00,226 --> 00:16:03,661 - I really did feel like I was... 324 00:16:05,865 --> 00:16:07,598 out of my own. 325 00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:12,470 When I say that, I don't think that I 326 00:16:12,472 --> 00:16:15,373 had ever been in my element anywhere. 327 00:16:15,375 --> 00:16:17,542 - But it just really took me a long time 328 00:16:17,544 --> 00:16:21,612 before I felt centered. 329 00:16:22,048 --> 00:16:24,048 - I was afraid to be beautiful. 330 00:16:25,151 --> 00:16:26,351 Yeah. 331 00:16:27,053 --> 00:16:29,087 I was afraid to be funny. 332 00:16:30,623 --> 00:16:33,024 I wanna say I don't know why. 333 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:44,168 The closest that I can get to the truth... 334 00:16:46,473 --> 00:16:47,972 is that... 335 00:16:55,582 --> 00:16:57,648 I think I was afraid that 336 00:16:58,251 --> 00:16:59,517 what I would... 337 00:17:00,086 --> 00:17:02,253 what people would see 338 00:17:02,722 --> 00:17:05,590 would not be acceptable. 339 00:17:06,226 --> 00:17:07,725 I was lost. 340 00:17:08,695 --> 00:17:12,330 ♪ God's gonna trouble the water 341 00:17:12,332 --> 00:17:13,998 - And we began to chant, 342 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,468 "Let the women speak, let the women speak!" 343 00:17:17,470 --> 00:17:20,805 Life then just seemed like every day you got up 344 00:17:20,807 --> 00:17:25,810 and there'd be another kind of "Wham, here's another 345 00:17:25,945 --> 00:17:28,980 "majorly big thing that's happening." 346 00:17:28,982 --> 00:17:31,049 And it really did feel like the ground 347 00:17:31,051 --> 00:17:33,251 was just shifting all the time. 348 00:17:34,154 --> 00:17:38,689 - There began to be a critical mass within our hearts 349 00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:43,795 of what we needed to be doing. 350 00:17:43,797 --> 00:17:46,864 - I think women have been told to be quiet, 351 00:17:46,866 --> 00:17:49,801 to calm down, to calm down. 352 00:17:49,803 --> 00:17:51,502 When somebody says to me, "Calm down," 353 00:17:51,504 --> 00:17:53,071 sometimes my husband will say that to me now, 354 00:17:53,073 --> 00:17:55,540 I think, "Don't tell me to calm down." 355 00:17:55,542 --> 00:17:58,076 - People were being assassinated, there was 356 00:17:58,078 --> 00:18:01,012 riots in the streets, cities were burning. 357 00:18:01,014 --> 00:18:03,047 The Civil Rights Movement, 358 00:18:03,049 --> 00:18:04,849 the war, women's lib. 359 00:18:04,851 --> 00:18:06,684 Students now think that if they "Like" something 360 00:18:06,686 --> 00:18:09,287 on Facebook that they've done thier bid, 361 00:18:09,289 --> 00:18:12,290 but you're not gonna affect change in the society 362 00:18:12,292 --> 00:18:15,026 unless you get out there and try to do something about it. 363 00:18:15,028 --> 00:18:17,662 - I've lived through two 364 00:18:17,664 --> 00:18:20,832 truly cataclysmic events in terms 365 00:18:20,834 --> 00:18:23,901 of the impact on my world. 366 00:18:23,903 --> 00:18:27,872 One was the assassination of President Kennedy 367 00:18:27,874 --> 00:18:30,308 and everything that flowed from that, 368 00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:32,310 and the other event was 9/11. 369 00:18:32,312 --> 00:18:35,146 - I worked for, on and off of the newspaper 370 00:18:35,148 --> 00:18:37,949 when I was in college, and I did get the opportunity 371 00:18:37,951 --> 00:18:39,717 to interview Bobby Kennedy, 372 00:18:39,719 --> 00:18:42,920 who, my god, was one of my major heroes. 373 00:18:42,922 --> 00:18:46,357 I was devastated when he was assassinated. 374 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,594 - [Voiceover] The day Bobby Kennedy came to the campus... 375 00:18:49,596 --> 00:18:53,431 - I have a picture of me sitting right behind him. 376 00:18:53,433 --> 00:18:56,701 What struck me, his hands were shaking. 377 00:18:57,070 --> 00:18:59,770 I'll never forget that. His hands were trembling. 378 00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:01,506 Nobody could see it behind the podium 379 00:19:01,508 --> 00:19:04,208 in front of him, but I could, I'm right behind him. 380 00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:05,977 The page was shaking, hands were 381 00:19:05,979 --> 00:19:08,379 trembling so that the paper rattled. 382 00:19:08,381 --> 00:19:12,049 - I began to see that women were treated 383 00:19:12,051 --> 00:19:14,886 in similar ways to in the ways that blacks 384 00:19:14,888 --> 00:19:18,990 were being treated, so it wasn't a difficult leap 385 00:19:18,992 --> 00:19:21,058 to make between what was happening 386 00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:23,194 in the Civil Rights Movement and wanting to get 387 00:19:23,196 --> 00:19:25,263 more with the Women's Movement. 388 00:19:25,265 --> 00:19:27,031 - There was a woman in that dorm whose, 389 00:19:27,033 --> 00:19:29,400 I don't know whether it was her fiance, 390 00:19:29,402 --> 00:19:32,103 was in Vietnam, and he called her 391 00:19:32,105 --> 00:19:33,738 and I remember that conversation. 392 00:19:33,740 --> 00:19:35,606 That sort of heart breaking conversation. 393 00:19:35,608 --> 00:19:38,776 He's over there, who knows 394 00:19:38,778 --> 00:19:40,912 when or if she'd ever talk to him again, 395 00:19:40,914 --> 00:19:43,614 and she's on this payphone in the hall. 396 00:19:43,616 --> 00:19:45,650 - All the boys that I grew up with, 'cause I didn't 397 00:19:45,652 --> 00:19:47,318 grow up in a fancy neighborhood, 398 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,655 were being drafted to go into a war that, 399 00:19:50,757 --> 00:19:53,224 and many of them got killed, that, 400 00:19:53,393 --> 00:19:55,693 most of the people that I knew, including myself, 401 00:19:55,695 --> 00:20:00,264 didn't believe was a moral war, a justifiable war. 402 00:20:00,266 --> 00:20:02,567 It seemed that the U.S. had no business 403 00:20:02,569 --> 00:20:05,603 being in Vietnam, it was a civil war, 404 00:20:05,605 --> 00:20:08,706 and that it sort of smelled of imperialism. 405 00:20:09,042 --> 00:20:11,809 That's what drove everybody to feel 406 00:20:11,811 --> 00:20:13,911 that they really had to speak out. 407 00:20:14,614 --> 00:20:16,147 - You know, when he came home and I met him 408 00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:19,584 at the airport, I thought he'd made it. 409 00:20:19,586 --> 00:20:22,386 He got out without getting killed. 410 00:20:23,022 --> 00:20:25,890 And then he was in his early 40s, 411 00:20:25,892 --> 00:20:28,826 one night he says to me, "I have cancer." 412 00:20:28,828 --> 00:20:31,762 I said, "If you've got a slow growing cancer, 413 00:20:32,232 --> 00:20:35,533 "you could probably trace it right back to Vietnam." 414 00:20:35,535 --> 00:20:36,801 You know what I mean? 415 00:20:36,803 --> 00:20:38,236 Yeah, to (mumbles) 416 00:20:38,238 --> 00:20:40,004 You know, I really loved him. 417 00:20:40,807 --> 00:20:42,106 But he's gone. 418 00:20:43,176 --> 00:20:46,644 ♪ If that mockingbird don't sing 419 00:20:46,646 --> 00:20:50,448 ♪ Mama's gonna buy you a diamond ring 420 00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:54,352 ♪ If that diamond ring turns brass 421 00:20:54,354 --> 00:20:57,855 ♪ Mama's gonna buy you a looking glass ♪ 422 00:20:57,857 --> 00:20:59,557 - [Voiceover] Everybody came home from Christmas 423 00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:01,659 senior year with their rings. 424 00:21:01,661 --> 00:21:04,729 - Sex was never a conversation at home. 425 00:21:04,931 --> 00:21:08,299 And she says to me, "Do you know what a diaphragm is?" 426 00:21:08,735 --> 00:21:12,003 And I said, "Yeah, it's this muscle 427 00:21:12,005 --> 00:21:14,305 (laughing) "underneath the..." 428 00:21:17,777 --> 00:21:20,878 - Finally an enlightened gynecologist came to town, 429 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,248 and he let it be known that he would do, 430 00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:27,585 he would give birth control to women who were engaged. 431 00:21:27,987 --> 00:21:31,422 One of my students sent away for her older sister's 432 00:21:31,424 --> 00:21:35,426 engagement ring, she put it on, went to see the doctor, 433 00:21:35,795 --> 00:21:37,561 and the doctor years later said to me, 434 00:21:37,563 --> 00:21:41,499 "Tom, if I saw that ring once, I saw it 27 times." 435 00:21:42,702 --> 00:21:44,635 That's what women had to do in that era 436 00:21:44,637 --> 00:21:46,170 to get a hold of birth control. 437 00:21:46,172 --> 00:21:48,673 - The ring by spring thing was nonsense. 438 00:21:48,675 --> 00:21:52,276 I'd never heard that before, that was not on my agenda. 439 00:21:52,578 --> 00:21:55,246 My mom had told me early on, if you wanna get married, 440 00:21:55,248 --> 00:21:57,815 stay home and save everybody a lot of money. 441 00:21:58,151 --> 00:22:00,284 - I think I was interested in romance 442 00:22:00,286 --> 00:22:02,086 from the time I was about four. 443 00:22:02,088 --> 00:22:05,056 This little boy named Georgie Kiefer gave me a ring. 444 00:22:05,058 --> 00:22:07,425 That was the beginning of the end for me. 445 00:22:07,427 --> 00:22:10,328 I think everybody wanted to appear to be a virgin, 446 00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:12,663 and I think everybody said they were a virgin. 447 00:22:12,665 --> 00:22:14,498 I actually restored my virginity 448 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:16,534 after high school. (laughter) 449 00:22:16,536 --> 00:22:18,803 I then became a... (laughs) 450 00:22:18,805 --> 00:22:23,407 I was a recovering virgin. 451 00:22:24,844 --> 00:22:27,178 - I had an affair with two professors. 452 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:30,181 The airplane belonged to the professor, the first professor. 453 00:22:30,183 --> 00:22:32,350 He was sort of, considered to me, 454 00:22:32,352 --> 00:22:34,652 the best looking professor on campus. 455 00:22:34,654 --> 00:22:37,221 I was his girlfriend, therefore people would 456 00:22:37,223 --> 00:22:39,223 turn their heads to look at me. 457 00:22:39,225 --> 00:22:41,158 I became friends with his family and I remember 458 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,995 being over at their house when we landed on the moon. 459 00:22:45,565 --> 00:22:48,866 Another milestone was finding out through analysis 460 00:22:48,868 --> 00:22:52,303 and through becoming friends 461 00:22:52,305 --> 00:22:56,741 with a terrific group of people, that I was gay. 462 00:22:58,511 --> 00:23:01,112 The most difficult part about that was 463 00:23:01,114 --> 00:23:04,782 telling my family, which did not go so well. 464 00:23:04,784 --> 00:23:09,787 - Out of that grows a great solidarity with the people that 465 00:23:11,357 --> 00:23:15,292 are coming out of the closet, have come out of the closet... 466 00:23:16,696 --> 00:23:20,030 I mean, we just had a fellow at work, 467 00:23:20,032 --> 00:23:23,501 an engineer at work, who took a week off 468 00:23:24,537 --> 00:23:26,003 and came back as a woman. 469 00:23:26,005 --> 00:23:27,938 - I wrote to her every day in the summer, 470 00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:29,874 and she never wrote me back. 471 00:23:29,876 --> 00:23:33,511 I remember that as being excruciatingly painful. 472 00:23:33,513 --> 00:23:35,379 I'd go to my little mailbox in Oak Bluffs, 473 00:23:35,381 --> 00:23:37,314 I'd open it up and there'd be nothing inside. 474 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:39,650 Finally, she must've called me or something happened, 475 00:23:39,652 --> 00:23:42,319 and I went to visit her and her family in Vermont. 476 00:23:42,321 --> 00:23:45,623 I was in her bedroom, 477 00:23:46,292 --> 00:23:48,392 and I opened the top drawer, and there was 478 00:23:48,394 --> 00:23:52,296 my stack of letters all in one piece. 479 00:23:53,132 --> 00:23:55,199 When I left, I took them. 480 00:23:55,535 --> 00:23:57,134 And she never said anything to me about it, 481 00:23:57,136 --> 00:23:58,803 she clearly had them sitting there, 482 00:23:58,805 --> 00:24:03,073 and I read them, and I was sort of appalled, 483 00:24:04,844 --> 00:24:08,212 and then I buried them outside. (laughs) 484 00:24:10,383 --> 00:24:12,383 I tried to dig them up a couple years later 485 00:24:12,385 --> 00:24:14,452 and they were not there anymore. 486 00:24:14,687 --> 00:24:17,154 - Your big sister set you up in your freshman year 487 00:24:17,156 --> 00:24:21,025 with a frat boy from Union College, 488 00:24:21,794 --> 00:24:24,361 and he drinks a lot of beer and is really into football, 489 00:24:24,363 --> 00:24:26,497 and that just wasn't my thing. 490 00:24:26,499 --> 00:24:29,600 So I just found my little home in Caffè Lena. 491 00:24:29,602 --> 00:24:31,402 (folk music) 492 00:24:31,404 --> 00:24:33,304 That was a university for us. 493 00:24:33,306 --> 00:24:36,006 I wound up waitressing there pretty much all four years. 494 00:24:36,242 --> 00:24:38,742 Yeah, you're a woman, but you can do this. 495 00:24:38,744 --> 00:24:42,146 You can play music, you don't have to just listen to it. 496 00:24:42,148 --> 00:24:46,450 ♪ Wade in the water 497 00:24:46,752 --> 00:24:51,422 ♪ Wade in the water children 498 00:24:51,424 --> 00:24:55,926 ♪ Wade in the water 499 00:24:55,928 --> 00:25:00,397 ♪ God's gonna trobule the water 500 00:25:03,035 --> 00:25:06,070 Well, the first love of my life, he was a master 501 00:25:06,072 --> 00:25:09,073 guitar player, he had a beautiful Martin D-28, 502 00:25:09,075 --> 00:25:12,376 I think, and just lovely picking style, 503 00:25:14,714 --> 00:25:17,515 and very, very sweet songs. 504 00:25:17,517 --> 00:25:21,252 I lost my virginity at Lena's apartment. 505 00:25:21,254 --> 00:25:25,389 As a matter of fact, she gave us her grand bedroom. (laughs) 506 00:25:27,226 --> 00:25:29,560 - I have always had terrible taste in men. 507 00:25:29,629 --> 00:25:31,228 - Sometimes you have to kiss a lot 508 00:25:31,230 --> 00:25:33,163 of frogs to meet the prince. 509 00:25:33,165 --> 00:25:35,466 - I think I went underground... 510 00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:41,071 Especially because I was so, sort of in awe of my husband. 511 00:25:41,474 --> 00:25:45,376 - I'm really not wife material. I'm really not. 512 00:25:45,378 --> 00:25:48,612 - There was something very theoretical about my life. 513 00:25:48,981 --> 00:25:53,250 I wanted something real, but to become kind of, 514 00:25:53,252 --> 00:25:57,855 really realizing my sexual self, 515 00:25:58,524 --> 00:26:00,324 that happened with Mike. 516 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,695 It was, you know, it was very... 517 00:26:06,232 --> 00:26:08,065 It was very powerful. 518 00:26:08,067 --> 00:26:09,733 - I'm talking about coming out of the box, and I think 519 00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:13,771 women realized that sexual satisfaction was their right. 520 00:26:13,773 --> 00:26:17,141 - Mike put on this album, this new album 521 00:26:17,143 --> 00:26:22,046 that had just come out, and Both Sides Now starts to play. 522 00:26:22,148 --> 00:26:24,915 Whenever I hear it I immediately turn back to that night, 523 00:26:24,917 --> 00:26:27,585 and it rained and we ran across the bridge, 524 00:26:27,587 --> 00:26:30,554 and that was one of those moments when 525 00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:33,123 your life is sort of going down the road 526 00:26:33,125 --> 00:26:34,725 this way, and then all of a sudden (blows air). 527 00:26:34,727 --> 00:26:37,261 - The major cop-out thing, I got married. 528 00:26:37,263 --> 00:26:40,564 And I was embarrassed to be getting married. 529 00:26:40,833 --> 00:26:43,434 That's how I felt about it. (laughs) 530 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:45,703 I remember I went home and told my father 531 00:26:45,705 --> 00:26:48,539 "I'm so embarrassed to be saying that." 532 00:26:48,541 --> 00:26:51,308 - I actually dated someone from Union College, 533 00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:53,444 but it stopped when my parents would not let me 534 00:26:53,446 --> 00:26:55,346 go down for a weekend. 535 00:26:55,348 --> 00:26:58,215 - That's where my life started going off the cliff. 536 00:26:58,618 --> 00:27:01,552 You know the whole cliche of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. 537 00:27:03,022 --> 00:27:05,255 That became a real part of my life, 538 00:27:05,858 --> 00:27:10,127 the chaos and the instability of relationships. 539 00:27:11,631 --> 00:27:14,498 - [Voiceover] So it took a long time for me to actually get, 540 00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,101 from my mother, probably 'til I was like 55, 541 00:27:17,103 --> 00:27:19,370 that she was actually proud of what I'd done. 542 00:27:19,372 --> 00:27:22,439 All she'd call and say, "So when are you having children? 543 00:27:22,441 --> 00:27:24,141 "So when are you having children?" 544 00:27:24,143 --> 00:27:26,176 - My mother had the longest running subscription 545 00:27:26,178 --> 00:27:28,512 to Brides Magazine that I think they ever had, 546 00:27:28,514 --> 00:27:29,780 ever, ever, ever. 547 00:27:29,782 --> 00:27:31,982 - Yes, I was pregnant when I graduated, 548 00:27:31,984 --> 00:27:34,418 and there were a few of us. 549 00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:36,353 - I got pregnant and got married. 550 00:27:36,355 --> 00:27:39,223 Had I not gotten pregnant, I wouldn't have gotten married. 551 00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:44,128 - I had my son probably just before I turned 43. 552 00:27:44,130 --> 00:27:46,030 - She was the second bottle of champagne 553 00:27:46,032 --> 00:27:48,899 on my 40th birthday. (laughs) 554 00:27:49,001 --> 00:27:51,769 So you know, everybody says life begins at 40? 555 00:27:51,771 --> 00:27:54,271 I didn't think it was gonna be that way. (laughs) 556 00:27:54,273 --> 00:27:56,974 Yeah, it was a surprise, I was not necessarily 557 00:27:57,143 --> 00:27:59,109 wanting children, really. 558 00:27:59,345 --> 00:28:01,812 A lot of people say it's a difficult moment when 559 00:28:02,181 --> 00:28:04,848 your daughter goes off to college. 560 00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:07,351 I was so ready to get rid of her. (laughs) 561 00:28:07,953 --> 00:28:10,821 Living with a teenage girl who's very smart 562 00:28:10,823 --> 00:28:13,057 and is also stronger than you are... 563 00:28:13,392 --> 00:28:15,626 But I got mad at her, she used to pick me up. 564 00:28:15,628 --> 00:28:18,429 Literally pick me up off my feet. 565 00:28:18,431 --> 00:28:19,630 How, and you know it's like, 566 00:28:19,632 --> 00:28:21,432 "Put me down, put me down!" (laughs) 567 00:28:21,434 --> 00:28:24,835 - One of the big regrets of my life is not having children. 568 00:28:24,837 --> 00:28:26,937 I never set out to not have children, 569 00:28:26,939 --> 00:28:29,973 I always assumed I would have children, but... 570 00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:34,211 When I came here to MIT, it was, 571 00:28:34,647 --> 00:28:36,780 I couldn't even imagine having children. 572 00:28:36,782 --> 00:28:40,417 - James Baldwin said, "Go the way your blood beats. 573 00:28:40,486 --> 00:28:42,252 "All true love is holy." 574 00:28:42,254 --> 00:28:45,255 It was very important to me for many, many years, 575 00:28:45,991 --> 00:28:47,725 to have a lover and to be in a 576 00:28:47,727 --> 00:28:49,960 loving relationship with someone. 577 00:28:49,962 --> 00:28:53,197 I never had a strong pull toward being a mother. 578 00:28:53,199 --> 00:28:55,899 I certainly never had any regret 579 00:28:57,369 --> 00:29:00,671 at the decision to have an abortion. 580 00:29:03,976 --> 00:29:08,145 And that's what I find so upsetting in these... 581 00:29:10,416 --> 00:29:14,918 pathetic old men in Congress and without that 582 00:29:17,656 --> 00:29:20,657 set themselves up as arbiters 583 00:29:20,659 --> 00:29:23,227 of what should happen with my womb. 584 00:29:29,902 --> 00:29:32,636 - Not having children makes me weep. 585 00:29:38,844 --> 00:29:42,913 And there are times when... 586 00:29:46,152 --> 00:29:50,554 simply having nobody 587 00:29:50,890 --> 00:29:53,857 to help me but me makes me weak. 588 00:29:53,859 --> 00:29:55,826 You're about to get the flu 589 00:29:55,828 --> 00:29:58,662 and you can feel it coming on, 590 00:29:58,664 --> 00:30:01,598 and there's nothing in the house, 591 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,969 and you have to make the trip to the grocery store 592 00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:09,640 to buy what you're gonna need for the next three days 593 00:30:09,809 --> 00:30:12,309 because there is no division of labor. 594 00:30:12,311 --> 00:30:14,678 That makes me weep sometimes. 595 00:30:15,748 --> 00:30:18,348 The stinkin' quart of milk. (chuckles) 596 00:30:18,751 --> 00:30:20,417 ("The Water is Wide" sung by MaryLeigh Roohan) 597 00:30:20,419 --> 00:30:23,720 ♪ The water is wide 598 00:30:23,722 --> 00:30:25,923 - Yeah, honestly relationships have been 599 00:30:25,925 --> 00:30:27,991 my biggest challenge. 600 00:30:27,993 --> 00:30:30,160 - The type of men that 601 00:30:30,696 --> 00:30:33,030 I found appealing changed 602 00:30:33,399 --> 00:30:34,798 as I became more political. 603 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,567 - I have a wonderful husband, 604 00:30:36,569 --> 00:30:39,436 and he calls himself Mr. Thatcher. 605 00:30:39,772 --> 00:30:42,039 He claims he likes to carry my purse. 606 00:30:43,309 --> 00:30:45,442 - We've been married for 42 years. 607 00:30:45,444 --> 00:30:48,712 - I very much had one foot strongly planted 608 00:30:48,714 --> 00:30:51,381 in that 1950s mentality, 609 00:30:51,383 --> 00:30:53,717 of your husband will take care of you. 610 00:30:53,719 --> 00:30:56,587 - I can remember my mother saying (inhales) 611 00:30:56,655 --> 00:30:59,122 "The man is the head of the relationship 612 00:30:59,124 --> 00:31:01,458 "and the woman is the heart." 613 00:31:02,027 --> 00:31:05,028 Therefore, don't think. 614 00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:09,099 - I wasn't good at expressing my feelings at all. 615 00:31:11,136 --> 00:31:13,871 Because you didn't wanna rock the boat. 616 00:31:13,873 --> 00:31:15,772 - I mean, look what happened with divorce. 617 00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:20,677 I know my friends' parents who would stay together 618 00:31:20,679 --> 00:31:24,681 with impossible marriages, and the stigma 619 00:31:24,683 --> 00:31:28,385 attached to divorce, well, for politicians... 620 00:31:29,555 --> 00:31:31,488 Ronald Reagan became president and he was divorced. 621 00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:34,091 That never would have happened in the '50s. 622 00:31:34,093 --> 00:31:37,494 - I could make much better business decisions than I ever 623 00:31:37,496 --> 00:31:40,731 did with most of what was going on in my home life. 624 00:31:40,733 --> 00:31:44,434 - You know, every divorce has a straw. 625 00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:47,871 - He landed in jail many, many times. 626 00:31:47,873 --> 00:31:49,940 His face was beaten up. 627 00:31:49,942 --> 00:31:51,909 - My ex-husband bought a ship. 628 00:31:52,678 --> 00:31:54,778 I'm not talking about a boat or a yacht, 629 00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:56,480 I'm talking about a ship. 630 00:31:56,482 --> 00:31:58,448 - He did try to break into the White House. 631 00:31:58,450 --> 00:32:01,084 He was fairly political-minded. 632 00:32:01,086 --> 00:32:03,320 - And so he bought a ship without telling me 633 00:32:03,322 --> 00:32:06,256 or discussing it with me, or... 634 00:32:06,825 --> 00:32:09,693 And that was at a time that we could barely 635 00:32:09,695 --> 00:32:12,396 pay our day-to-day bills. 636 00:32:12,698 --> 00:32:14,031 - You know what? 637 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,234 I love you dearly, but I'm better off 638 00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:18,902 striking off on my own. 639 00:32:18,904 --> 00:32:21,238 - It's not always a regret, it's a wonder, 640 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,107 what would I be like if I had married? 641 00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:26,343 (laughs) I don't know. 642 00:32:27,546 --> 00:32:30,814 I think I learned early on 643 00:32:30,816 --> 00:32:32,983 with other girlfriends, 644 00:32:33,619 --> 00:32:35,819 I learned not to define myself 645 00:32:35,821 --> 00:32:39,089 based on the dependence or the need for a man. 646 00:32:39,325 --> 00:32:42,059 - Who am I without a man? 647 00:32:42,294 --> 00:32:45,329 That's been, that's been a very interesting 648 00:32:46,131 --> 00:32:47,531 thing to discover. 649 00:32:47,533 --> 00:32:50,734 - That bond, and that's probably why he's come up a lot, 650 00:32:51,337 --> 00:32:56,306 is the one that sort of remains in my dreams. 651 00:32:57,009 --> 00:33:00,377 That's what my soul returns to. 652 00:33:01,146 --> 00:33:03,213 Married, couple of kids. 653 00:33:03,682 --> 00:33:06,550 I ran into him at a funeral. (laughs) 654 00:33:07,619 --> 00:33:11,888 I was still hoping that I would find someone 655 00:33:11,890 --> 00:33:16,493 that would be more of a life partner. 656 00:33:30,743 --> 00:33:33,777 But they were mostly musicians, you know? 657 00:33:36,482 --> 00:33:38,415 The nature of the beast, you know. 658 00:33:38,417 --> 00:33:42,686 I think that I was close to a guitarist 659 00:33:42,688 --> 00:33:47,424 for a while, and very close to a jazz pianist 660 00:33:47,426 --> 00:33:51,528 for a while, and then close to a jazz bassist 661 00:33:51,530 --> 00:33:53,730 for a while. (laughs) 662 00:33:58,570 --> 00:34:01,738 Never set up housekeeping again, though. 663 00:34:05,811 --> 00:34:09,679 ♪ Say the cost of living's high 664 00:34:09,681 --> 00:34:11,982 ♪ Check the pricetag on a dream 665 00:34:11,984 --> 00:34:14,284 - Brian, my middle child, 666 00:34:15,788 --> 00:34:17,521 used to wonder, "Mommy, why do you work 667 00:34:17,523 --> 00:34:21,224 "so hard?" And he was like, 12 or 13 maybe at the time. 668 00:34:22,127 --> 00:34:23,760 This is when I was still single, 669 00:34:23,762 --> 00:34:25,562 I hadn't married Randy yet. 670 00:34:25,764 --> 00:34:27,764 I said, "Because I don't wanna get fired." 671 00:34:27,766 --> 00:34:29,166 He said, "No one would ever fire you." 672 00:34:29,168 --> 00:34:31,101 He says, "You are the queen of work!" 673 00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:34,638 - I mean, I loved being a mother, 674 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,808 but there was a real big hole in my life. 675 00:34:37,810 --> 00:34:39,476 - And if you think about their mothers, 676 00:34:39,478 --> 00:34:41,445 who many of them who graduated from 677 00:34:41,447 --> 00:34:45,115 very good liberal arts colleges like Skidmore. 678 00:34:45,984 --> 00:34:48,151 Those mothers thought that they would get a ring 679 00:34:48,153 --> 00:34:51,021 by spring of their senior year and then 680 00:34:51,023 --> 00:34:55,292 move into marriage and produce children 681 00:34:55,761 --> 00:34:59,362 like themselves and then go on 682 00:35:00,632 --> 00:35:03,967 producing more children, but not taking a job. 683 00:35:04,369 --> 00:35:07,270 Now we had women going out into the workplace 684 00:35:07,272 --> 00:35:09,439 who actually expected to work. 685 00:35:09,441 --> 00:35:11,608 - But I'll never forget walking down the hall 686 00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:14,578 and hearing this music, and saying, "Oh my god, 687 00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:17,180 "that is so beautiful." And it was like, 688 00:35:17,182 --> 00:35:20,684 it's just kind of (humming march music). 689 00:35:22,988 --> 00:35:26,623 It was so beautiful, and that's, 690 00:35:26,692 --> 00:35:29,526 that's how I responded, and... 691 00:35:29,528 --> 00:35:31,661 that has never left me. 692 00:35:31,864 --> 00:35:36,333 It's really the profound through line of my life. 693 00:35:36,602 --> 00:35:39,002 I kind of went from the sublime 694 00:35:39,004 --> 00:35:41,805 to the ridiculous, but the way I phrased it 695 00:35:41,807 --> 00:35:46,376 was I sang as a singing telegram 696 00:35:46,712 --> 00:35:49,546 delivery person, and I sang in the chorus at the Met. 697 00:35:50,048 --> 00:35:52,949 So, which was sublime and which was ridiculous? 698 00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:54,284 (laughs) 699 00:35:54,686 --> 00:35:56,520 - I only have one sibling, 700 00:35:56,855 --> 00:35:59,222 and she's developmentally disabled. 701 00:35:59,491 --> 00:36:01,491 She was living at home with my parents. 702 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:03,827 I asked my parents, "What are your... 703 00:36:04,163 --> 00:36:06,630 "What about Kathy?" because by that time 704 00:36:06,632 --> 00:36:09,499 my father was almost 70. 705 00:36:09,501 --> 00:36:11,468 This when I was still in college, and I said, 706 00:36:11,470 --> 00:36:13,036 "What is the plan?" 707 00:36:13,038 --> 00:36:15,338 My father said, "You're the plan." 708 00:36:15,607 --> 00:36:17,274 I said, "I'm not the plan." 709 00:36:17,809 --> 00:36:19,709 I realized, to make sure I wasn't the plan 710 00:36:19,711 --> 00:36:21,278 I really had to put a lot of distance 711 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,880 between myself and Manchester. 712 00:36:24,116 --> 00:36:26,983 I just did not wanna be, this is (mumbles), 713 00:36:26,985 --> 00:36:29,219 gonna be sound very heartless, but I did not 714 00:36:29,221 --> 00:36:31,821 want to be my sister's keeper, I really wanted a life. 715 00:36:32,191 --> 00:36:33,957 I'd worked hard to get one. 716 00:36:34,660 --> 00:36:36,459 I didn't want to go back, 717 00:36:37,196 --> 00:36:38,695 and so I didn't. 718 00:36:39,665 --> 00:36:42,465 - In the summer I had worked on 7th Avenue 719 00:36:43,101 --> 00:36:45,502 as a Fitters model, and I remember where, 720 00:36:45,504 --> 00:36:47,571 which basically, they stuck pins in you all day 721 00:36:47,573 --> 00:36:49,005 and paid you for it, but mended you 722 00:36:49,007 --> 00:36:50,407 if you bled onto the dress. 723 00:36:50,409 --> 00:36:51,808 It was really one of those really interesting 724 00:36:51,810 --> 00:36:54,611 7th Avenue experiences. 725 00:36:55,047 --> 00:36:57,214 I got paid by the hour and all that kind of thing. 726 00:36:57,916 --> 00:37:00,283 I really realized at that point that I wanted 727 00:37:00,285 --> 00:37:02,953 to be the one sitting behind the desk 728 00:37:02,955 --> 00:37:04,421 going, (nasally) "I don't like this. 729 00:37:04,423 --> 00:37:05,722 "She doesn't look good in that. 730 00:37:05,724 --> 00:37:07,157 "That's not cute, I want that one. 731 00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:08,959 "Could you make it in blue?" 732 00:37:08,961 --> 00:37:10,560 (normal) I wanted to be the one on the other side, 733 00:37:10,562 --> 00:37:11,995 the business person. 734 00:37:11,997 --> 00:37:14,064 - I would always come at it from the financial side 735 00:37:14,066 --> 00:37:16,032 'cause I really wanted to be in charge. 736 00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:18,969 - Victoria's Secret has a whole other, when I was there, 737 00:37:19,771 --> 00:37:22,272 you had a whole manual that defined 738 00:37:22,274 --> 00:37:26,610 what sexy was in six different buckets of sexy. 739 00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:28,945 Believe it or not. 740 00:37:29,448 --> 00:37:30,981 Once you tell people that you do bras, 741 00:37:30,983 --> 00:37:33,183 let me tell you, you're at every cocktail party, 742 00:37:33,185 --> 00:37:35,785 people are hiking up their shirts. 743 00:37:35,787 --> 00:37:37,520 (laughing) I mean, just even at my Sunday School 744 00:37:37,522 --> 00:37:39,656 teacher man was like, "Not here, please," 745 00:37:39,658 --> 00:37:41,191 and I was like, "Please." 746 00:37:41,193 --> 00:37:45,262 - I began my career with the Three Mile Island event, 747 00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:48,198 and I was flying that day into Harrisburg 748 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,867 to meet with the governor the day after 749 00:37:50,869 --> 00:37:53,403 Three Mile Island, I'm the only one on the plane. 750 00:37:53,405 --> 00:37:56,206 (laughing) Everybody else is going the other way. 751 00:37:58,877 --> 00:38:02,445 - I ran for mayor. Very active in my union. 752 00:38:03,048 --> 00:38:05,348 Teachers Union, and... 753 00:38:06,952 --> 00:38:10,020 during my working years I'm still active as a retiree. 754 00:38:10,088 --> 00:38:12,956 - I became Mondale's Press Secretary when he 755 00:38:13,025 --> 00:38:15,258 geared up the campaign to run in '84. 756 00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:17,327 I was the first woman Press Secretary 757 00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:19,162 to a major Presidential Campaign, 758 00:38:19,164 --> 00:38:21,097 so there was a barrier broken. 759 00:38:21,099 --> 00:38:24,768 - I mean, I was the first woman in a men's locker room. 760 00:38:25,570 --> 00:38:29,739 I was doing a really feminist thing, 761 00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:32,842 and it was really, really, really hard. 762 00:38:32,844 --> 00:38:36,279 I was part of probably, the largest group 763 00:38:36,281 --> 00:38:39,082 Pulitzer ever won at the Times, 764 00:38:39,084 --> 00:38:41,318 which was for portraits and grief 765 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,989 about almost everyone who died on 9/11. 766 00:38:46,458 --> 00:38:50,093 - Oh, there were times when I was working 60 or 70 hours. 767 00:38:50,729 --> 00:38:53,396 It's become my family. 768 00:38:53,398 --> 00:38:55,565 - I'm a workaholic and one of the problems 769 00:38:55,567 --> 00:38:58,668 is that it's so darn interesting. (laughs) 770 00:38:59,004 --> 00:39:01,304 This organism, Prochlorococcus, 771 00:39:01,306 --> 00:39:03,640 it's like opening a present every week. 772 00:39:03,642 --> 00:39:06,076 My relationship with it is wanting to understand 773 00:39:06,078 --> 00:39:07,811 how it dominates the ocean. 774 00:39:07,813 --> 00:39:11,614 There's 10,000 of them per teaspoon of ocean water. 775 00:39:11,616 --> 00:39:13,149 Nobody knows they're there, 776 00:39:13,151 --> 00:39:14,784 and yet they're running the world. 777 00:39:14,786 --> 00:39:18,154 This is actually a poster for a party that 778 00:39:18,824 --> 00:39:22,025 my department had to celebrate my receiving 779 00:39:22,027 --> 00:39:23,860 the National Medal of Science. 780 00:39:24,663 --> 00:39:27,030 - Three weeks before the election, we got a poll 781 00:39:27,032 --> 00:39:30,133 which showed very conclusively that it was gonna be 782 00:39:30,135 --> 00:39:32,001 very difficult for Mondale to come back 783 00:39:32,003 --> 00:39:34,604 from where he was at a low point, and try to 784 00:39:34,606 --> 00:39:37,040 and win the election, so we knew he was gonna lose. 785 00:39:37,042 --> 00:39:39,342 - I have never cried on the job no matter how bad 786 00:39:39,344 --> 00:39:42,112 things got, I have never cried on the job. 787 00:39:43,014 --> 00:39:45,048 I might've cried at home afterwards. 788 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:47,851 - I would go back to my hotel room 789 00:39:47,853 --> 00:39:49,919 every day and cry at 5 o'clock, 790 00:39:49,921 --> 00:39:52,021 everybody thought that was funny at the time. 791 00:39:52,023 --> 00:39:54,290 - And one day we were watching something 792 00:39:54,292 --> 00:39:56,860 on television and Robin Morgan appeared. 793 00:39:57,229 --> 00:40:01,097 Robin Morgan, of course, was a very ardent feminist 794 00:40:01,466 --> 00:40:04,701 and we watched this, and Mike, 795 00:40:04,703 --> 00:40:07,537 my brand new husband, said, "Oh, everything she says 796 00:40:07,539 --> 00:40:09,939 "makes so much sense to me." 797 00:40:10,876 --> 00:40:13,510 And I was thinking, "Oh, god. 798 00:40:13,512 --> 00:40:15,779 "We just got married, we're gonna have a baby." 799 00:40:15,781 --> 00:40:18,148 It was a funny thing that he was 800 00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:21,451 liking the feminist point of view whereas I was 801 00:40:21,887 --> 00:40:25,922 kind of saying, "I don't know if I'm gonna be able to really 802 00:40:27,259 --> 00:40:28,992 "do this feminist thing." 803 00:40:28,994 --> 00:40:32,762 - Nobody ever said to me that all of that 804 00:40:32,764 --> 00:40:37,367 so-called success was going to 805 00:40:38,136 --> 00:40:42,105 also have a toll, and it did. 806 00:40:42,107 --> 00:40:44,641 It had a toll on my spirit, 807 00:40:44,643 --> 00:40:49,179 it had a toll on my sort of sense of self. 808 00:40:49,414 --> 00:40:50,814 I loved my work. 809 00:40:50,816 --> 00:40:53,349 The first show that I did was Charles in Charge, 810 00:40:53,351 --> 00:40:56,453 I developed and produced The Magic School Bus series, 811 00:40:56,455 --> 00:41:00,557 I've won 12 Emmys, do a lot of my work in Hollywood, 812 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:02,459 which is a real pressure cooker. 813 00:41:02,461 --> 00:41:04,561 I started doing that at a very early age 814 00:41:04,563 --> 00:41:07,664 and I also became a mother at a relatively early age. 815 00:41:07,732 --> 00:41:08,898 - I just don't think I was the best mother 816 00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:10,133 in the whole world. 817 00:41:10,135 --> 00:41:11,734 I was too tired to be the best mother 818 00:41:11,736 --> 00:41:13,169 in the whole world. 819 00:41:13,171 --> 00:41:16,806 - I was fortunate because my husband worked freelance, 820 00:41:16,808 --> 00:41:20,210 and he was at home, fortunate, unfortunate 821 00:41:20,212 --> 00:41:22,745 because at a certain point, 822 00:41:23,582 --> 00:41:26,716 I felt somewhat resentful that here I was 823 00:41:26,718 --> 00:41:29,052 being the person to go to work every day 824 00:41:30,222 --> 00:41:32,088 and basically bring home the bacon. 825 00:41:32,090 --> 00:41:33,323 Wasn't it great? 826 00:41:33,325 --> 00:41:35,658 I was a successful woman of the '70s, 827 00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:38,995 but I worry that my children's major attachment 828 00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:41,564 was to my husband, who was really taking 829 00:41:41,566 --> 00:41:45,001 the role of the traditional stay-at-home parent, 830 00:41:45,003 --> 00:41:48,338 and I was bravely marching into the workforce 831 00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:51,074 to come home exhausted all the time, 832 00:41:51,076 --> 00:41:54,110 and have the feeling that 833 00:41:54,613 --> 00:41:56,813 I was somehow failing at my work 834 00:41:56,815 --> 00:41:58,615 because I wasn't there as much as I should be, 835 00:41:58,617 --> 00:42:01,784 and I was failing at home because I wasn't with my children. 836 00:42:01,786 --> 00:42:04,487 - The schools didn't have an all-day kindergarten, 837 00:42:04,489 --> 00:42:06,756 so it really became an option for me 838 00:42:06,758 --> 00:42:09,125 where I could just drop the kids off in the morning 839 00:42:09,127 --> 00:42:10,927 and pick them up at night. 840 00:42:11,263 --> 00:42:13,997 I can remember both of them 841 00:42:13,999 --> 00:42:16,332 standing behind this fence, 842 00:42:16,334 --> 00:42:19,736 crying as I'm leaving, it was just, 843 00:42:20,071 --> 00:42:22,539 it was devastating. Absolutely awful. 844 00:42:23,375 --> 00:42:24,908 Awful, awful. 845 00:42:24,910 --> 00:42:28,111 - Women had to work twice as hard, 846 00:42:28,113 --> 00:42:31,381 and this has been documented by double blind studies 847 00:42:31,383 --> 00:42:35,151 of resumes and publications, and you know, 848 00:42:35,153 --> 00:42:38,087 fellowship grants, that women's have to be, 849 00:42:38,723 --> 00:42:41,591 half again as good to get an equal outcome. 850 00:42:41,593 --> 00:42:44,027 - Assertiveness in women is aggression. 851 00:42:44,563 --> 00:42:47,664 It's okay for guys, but it's not okay for women. 852 00:42:47,666 --> 00:42:49,532 - And he asked me the question and it was on 853 00:42:49,534 --> 00:42:52,769 the evening news, I'd love to try to find this footage. 854 00:42:52,771 --> 00:42:54,737 And he asked me the question, 855 00:42:55,807 --> 00:42:57,607 "Why you?" Right? 856 00:42:58,643 --> 00:43:00,910 I was pretty young, "You're so many years old, 857 00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:04,247 and "why would he have chosen you for this job?" 858 00:43:04,516 --> 00:43:08,117 And I said, "Would you ask that question of a man?" 859 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,487 And I think I caught them off guard. 860 00:43:11,489 --> 00:43:13,389 - They were all men except for me. 861 00:43:14,359 --> 00:43:18,361 And we had a 7 o'clock breakfast meeting 862 00:43:19,331 --> 00:43:23,366 once a week and I remember, 863 00:43:23,368 --> 00:43:25,935 it was like a stopwatch getting everybody ready, 864 00:43:25,937 --> 00:43:28,738 dropping off at childcare, et cetera, et cetera. 865 00:43:28,740 --> 00:43:31,608 So I went in to get Danny and he had made 866 00:43:31,610 --> 00:43:33,743 just a great, huge mess in his crib. 867 00:43:33,745 --> 00:43:35,612 I had to give him a bath. 868 00:43:35,614 --> 00:43:38,181 I'm looking at my watch, it's 6:45, 869 00:43:38,183 --> 00:43:39,616 saying to myself at the time, 870 00:43:39,618 --> 00:43:40,950 "There's not a single member of the Executive Committee 871 00:43:40,952 --> 00:43:42,585 "doing this this morning, that's for sure!" 872 00:43:43,088 --> 00:43:45,088 I remember being kind of annoyed 873 00:43:45,090 --> 00:43:47,991 that there was no opportunity for me to even 874 00:43:47,993 --> 00:43:52,195 catch a breath because they're running it like a men's club. 875 00:43:52,197 --> 00:43:54,764 - I mean, I became part of the movement, 876 00:43:54,766 --> 00:43:57,467 and I don't think it's coincidental that that was 877 00:43:58,536 --> 00:44:00,870 about the time I got tenure at MIT. 878 00:44:01,172 --> 00:44:03,473 Then I became very involved in 879 00:44:03,842 --> 00:44:06,075 advancing the cause of women in science. 880 00:44:06,077 --> 00:44:08,411 - See, I, in the business world also, 881 00:44:08,413 --> 00:44:11,214 see the generation of women who think they have to be 882 00:44:11,216 --> 00:44:15,218 like the boys to succeed, and I've never felt that. 883 00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:18,321 And I think Skidmore is why. (laughs) 884 00:44:18,323 --> 00:44:20,623 I think I was comfortable in being me, 885 00:44:20,625 --> 00:44:22,191 as a woman! 886 00:44:22,193 --> 00:44:24,994 I've not tried to be a man. (laughs) 887 00:44:24,996 --> 00:44:26,295 I wanna be with the boys, 888 00:44:26,297 --> 00:44:28,464 but I don't wanna be one of the boys. 889 00:44:28,967 --> 00:44:31,634 - There's always this sense that you walk into a room 890 00:44:31,636 --> 00:44:34,737 if you're a woman, and have no degrees from MIT, 891 00:44:34,739 --> 00:44:38,307 that you're assumed dumb until you prove otherwise. 892 00:44:39,444 --> 00:44:41,577 Not dumb, but less than. 893 00:44:42,947 --> 00:44:45,214 And I think that that 894 00:44:46,351 --> 00:44:48,484 kind of constantly fueled 895 00:44:49,821 --> 00:44:51,654 a sense of, "I'll show them." 896 00:44:51,656 --> 00:44:53,523 I call it the "uprising," when all 897 00:44:53,525 --> 00:44:55,124 the senior women got together. 898 00:44:55,126 --> 00:44:57,026 I have a button that says, 899 00:44:57,028 --> 00:44:59,529 "Well-Behaved Women Don't Make History." 900 00:44:59,531 --> 00:45:01,230 - Yeah, the glass ceiling was there, 901 00:45:01,232 --> 00:45:04,634 it wasn't blatantly talked about. 902 00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:06,803 Women could be vice presidents, 903 00:45:06,805 --> 00:45:08,871 but you weren't gonna be CEO. 904 00:45:09,174 --> 00:45:10,740 - You have to be not well-behaved 905 00:45:10,742 --> 00:45:12,975 if you're gonna make history. 906 00:45:12,977 --> 00:45:17,080 ♪ The water is wide 907 00:45:19,484 --> 00:45:21,451 - [Voiceover] After I'm dead, I hope people 908 00:45:21,453 --> 00:45:23,486 Google me. (laughs) 909 00:45:23,488 --> 00:45:25,855 - Gee, as I'm sitting here I'm becoming 910 00:45:25,857 --> 00:45:28,925 much more proud of myself (laughs) 911 00:45:29,694 --> 00:45:32,829 because it is, in fact, a legacy. 912 00:45:34,899 --> 00:45:37,166 It is an easier, the world is an easier 913 00:45:37,168 --> 00:45:39,068 place for my daughter. 914 00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:43,239 - Many times over my career, I've been the first woman 915 00:45:43,241 --> 00:45:46,042 to get this or the first woman to get that, 916 00:45:46,945 --> 00:45:49,345 and I always tell the joke 917 00:45:49,347 --> 00:45:52,248 that I wanna be the second woman 918 00:45:52,250 --> 00:45:55,017 to get whatever it is. (laughter) 919 00:45:57,088 --> 00:45:58,521 Or the fifth. 920 00:45:58,523 --> 00:46:02,225 - They want to celebrate your being the first black 921 00:46:02,227 --> 00:46:06,095 to do something, or the first minority of any kind. 922 00:46:06,264 --> 00:46:10,299 To me the stories are that you get these 923 00:46:10,301 --> 00:46:14,003 privileges, you're talked about being special, 924 00:46:14,672 --> 00:46:17,907 that you're not like everybody else. 925 00:46:18,443 --> 00:46:20,877 And my reaction is, "Oh, but I am 926 00:46:20,879 --> 00:46:23,346 "like everybody else." (laughs) 927 00:46:23,648 --> 00:46:26,749 There are a lot of people who worked hard 928 00:46:26,751 --> 00:46:29,418 who should've been in front of me, 929 00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:32,288 but they sort of laid down and sacrificed 930 00:46:32,791 --> 00:46:36,159 so I could get there, and I will not forget that. 931 00:46:36,594 --> 00:46:39,195 When I went to college and became a lawyer, 932 00:46:39,197 --> 00:46:41,831 my parents said to me, "Good, go--" 933 00:46:41,833 --> 00:46:43,432 Well, they didn't say "Good" initially, 934 00:46:43,434 --> 00:46:46,469 it was like, "You wanna be a lyin' lawyer?" (laughs) 935 00:46:47,972 --> 00:46:50,206 Those were my mother's words exactly. 936 00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:52,141 But after that, they said, "Well good, 937 00:46:52,143 --> 00:46:55,144 "go speak for those who can't speak for themselves." 938 00:46:55,146 --> 00:46:58,881 - When she was talking about, she and her husband's 939 00:46:58,883 --> 00:47:01,551 wedding and they had been meeting with the rabbi, 940 00:47:01,553 --> 00:47:05,154 and she talked about how, she thought it might be nice 941 00:47:05,156 --> 00:47:07,957 if she walked around him seven times. 942 00:47:08,660 --> 00:47:12,161 I said, "And then he's gonna walk around you seven times," 943 00:47:12,463 --> 00:47:15,131 and she goes, "No, I'm just gonna walk around him." 944 00:47:16,134 --> 00:47:19,468 Something inside me snapped and I lost it, 945 00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:23,005 and I was very inappropriate with her, 946 00:47:23,007 --> 00:47:26,209 and said that it would be over my dead body. 947 00:47:26,845 --> 00:47:29,645 If I choose to be submissive, 948 00:47:29,647 --> 00:47:33,716 if I choose to play a role 949 00:47:34,352 --> 00:47:36,185 in my household it's my choice, 950 00:47:36,187 --> 00:47:39,622 but no one should tell me what my role is. 951 00:47:39,858 --> 00:47:42,358 I didn't want anyone to tell her, 952 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,627 or at least make a demonstration 953 00:47:44,629 --> 00:47:47,430 of what her future role might be in her marriage. 954 00:47:49,167 --> 00:47:51,033 She didn't walk around her husband 955 00:47:51,035 --> 00:47:52,935 seven times at the wedding. 956 00:47:53,638 --> 00:47:56,472 - The Women's Movement affected me in terms of 957 00:47:56,474 --> 00:47:59,575 raising my son to appreciate women, 958 00:48:00,078 --> 00:48:04,513 and to value their roles and to try and understand them. 959 00:48:04,515 --> 00:48:07,783 We encouraged a lot stronger generation of women 960 00:48:07,785 --> 00:48:10,820 coming up behind us than existed before, 961 00:48:10,822 --> 00:48:14,590 and also, perhaps a generation of men 962 00:48:14,592 --> 00:48:16,225 who were a little bit more attuned 963 00:48:16,227 --> 00:48:19,128 to women's issues and women's rights. 964 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:22,531 - The idea of being unboxed, I wish that for everybody. 965 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,066 I wish that for my own daughters, 966 00:48:24,068 --> 00:48:26,969 who I would say, are in the hipster box. 967 00:48:27,305 --> 00:48:30,273 You know, get out of that box, and... 968 00:48:31,843 --> 00:48:33,876 just see what's out there. 969 00:48:35,647 --> 00:48:38,514 - In fact, I always tell my students, "Follow your heart. 970 00:48:39,617 --> 00:48:41,083 "It won't let you down." 971 00:48:41,419 --> 00:48:45,021 - Feminism was the best gift of your generation 972 00:48:45,957 --> 00:48:49,258 to modern students, and they take it for granted, 973 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:52,361 but they may have to re-fight some of these same battles. 974 00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:54,030 - I mean, look at Hillary Clinton, 975 00:48:54,032 --> 00:48:57,767 another graduate of the class of 1969 976 00:48:57,769 --> 00:48:59,335 from a women's college. 977 00:48:59,337 --> 00:49:01,704 I'm really proud to be 978 00:49:02,373 --> 00:49:05,574 in that class and of her generation. 979 00:49:05,576 --> 00:49:07,810 - I think my child is my legacy. 980 00:49:10,248 --> 00:49:11,881 My fearless child. 981 00:49:11,883 --> 00:49:14,750 I would never have been called fearless 982 00:49:15,186 --> 00:49:17,453 when I was her age, when I was 23. 983 00:49:17,455 --> 00:49:19,889 That was not something somebody would ever say 984 00:49:19,891 --> 00:49:23,659 to us when we were that age, fearless. 985 00:49:24,062 --> 00:49:27,430 'Cause I don't think that was something we knew how to be. 986 00:49:28,266 --> 00:49:29,799 At least I didn't. 987 00:49:30,168 --> 00:49:33,035 - Yeah, I think that this on both sides now 988 00:49:33,104 --> 00:49:36,472 kind of says it all, and maybe that's how 989 00:49:37,675 --> 00:49:41,477 I've lived my life, more with the questions. 990 00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:43,913 I know I have more questions always 991 00:49:43,915 --> 00:49:46,015 than I have answers, and I find 992 00:49:46,017 --> 00:49:49,819 that the older I get, the less I feel I know. 993 00:49:50,488 --> 00:49:52,021 - You can't have it all. 994 00:49:52,023 --> 00:49:55,358 You sort of have choices to make, trade-offs, 995 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,160 and everybody finds their own balance. 996 00:50:00,031 --> 00:50:02,331 - I Googled it and I found her, 997 00:50:03,034 --> 00:50:04,767 so I decided to call her. 998 00:50:05,069 --> 00:50:06,669 This man answered, 999 00:50:07,071 --> 00:50:08,838 I gave him my name, he said "Oh! 1000 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,408 "Your portrait is hanging in our living room 1001 00:50:13,044 --> 00:50:14,443 "over the mantel." 1002 00:50:14,445 --> 00:50:16,112 She comes to the phone 1003 00:50:16,714 --> 00:50:19,548 and she's in the process of getting divorced. 1004 00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:25,921 I made a terrible gaffe, I said, 1005 00:50:26,557 --> 00:50:29,859 "Are you still as beautiful as you used to be at Skidmore?" 1006 00:50:29,861 --> 00:50:32,128 That's something that you should have never, 1007 00:50:32,130 --> 00:50:34,697 ever said, but I said it. 1008 00:50:35,933 --> 00:50:38,601 In retrospect I think about it and I said, 1009 00:50:38,603 --> 00:50:42,038 "What an ass I was to make a comment like that." 1010 00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:45,941 But she was very mature about that, 1011 00:50:46,644 --> 00:50:49,345 and she put it in a very... 1012 00:50:50,481 --> 00:50:52,048 spiritual level. 1013 00:50:52,650 --> 00:50:57,153 She said, "I'm very beautiful inside." 1014 00:50:59,457 --> 00:51:02,124 - Hopefully someone would want to say, 1015 00:51:03,327 --> 00:51:06,729 "Good daughter, good friend, 1016 00:51:06,731 --> 00:51:08,664 "good wife, good mother." 1017 00:51:11,669 --> 00:51:14,603 I guess I didn't say good lawyer. (laughs) 1018 00:51:15,139 --> 00:51:18,507 I don't think I want that on my tombstone. 1019 00:51:18,609 --> 00:51:21,177 - My epitaph on my gravestone, 1020 00:51:21,179 --> 00:51:23,979 "No longer looking for a better position." 1021 00:51:24,582 --> 00:51:28,184 ♪ I'll go out with a bang 1022 00:51:28,753 --> 00:51:30,886 - [Voiceover] Aging is about, it's about 1023 00:51:30,888 --> 00:51:32,288 a lot of letting go. 1024 00:51:32,290 --> 00:51:35,191 - Just turned 65 the day before yesterday. 1025 00:51:35,593 --> 00:51:39,595 - The road ahead, there's a vanishing point, 1026 00:51:40,832 --> 00:51:44,400 (laughing) and we'll be vanishing at some point. 1027 00:51:46,571 --> 00:51:48,871 I think about death a lot, I have to say. 1028 00:51:48,873 --> 00:51:50,973 It is not something that I... 1029 00:51:53,811 --> 00:51:56,312 But it's not, it doesn't, I don't-- 1030 00:51:56,314 --> 00:51:57,746 When my mother died, I was with her. 1031 00:51:57,748 --> 00:51:59,715 I was holding her as she died, 1032 00:51:59,717 --> 00:52:03,752 and it was actually very peaceful, 1033 00:52:03,754 --> 00:52:05,788 and it was very sweet. 1034 00:52:05,790 --> 00:52:09,525 - The question no longer is "what do I want" 1035 00:52:11,129 --> 00:52:15,931 but what is my role in reflecting God? 1036 00:52:16,367 --> 00:52:18,300 - I touch God every day. 1037 00:52:19,103 --> 00:52:20,803 God is in my daughter. 1038 00:52:21,272 --> 00:52:25,141 - I think that I still have a lot of unfulfilled potential. 1039 00:52:26,711 --> 00:52:28,344 And... 1040 00:52:29,413 --> 00:52:32,148 Unfinished. (laughs) 1041 00:52:33,518 --> 00:52:34,917 - I wanna feel useful. 1042 00:52:34,919 --> 00:52:38,621 I wanna feel like I'm, I still have a voice. 1043 00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:41,991 - We have renewed ourselves and maybe reinvented 1044 00:52:41,993 --> 00:52:45,794 ourselves so many times along the way. 1045 00:52:45,796 --> 00:52:49,365 - I would like to learn, probably, 1046 00:52:49,367 --> 00:52:52,368 would you believe, Latin and Hebrew. 1047 00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:55,204 - I would love to do a cartwheel. 1048 00:52:56,841 --> 00:52:59,208 I tried it recently. The results were... 1049 00:52:59,210 --> 00:53:02,811 (laughing) shall we say, a little disappointing. 1050 00:53:02,813 --> 00:53:04,780 - A friend of mine said the only thing about getting older 1051 00:53:04,782 --> 00:53:07,449 is that you look different to other people. 1052 00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:12,121 I feel the same inside that I always did, 1053 00:53:12,123 --> 00:53:13,489 maybe even better. 1054 00:53:13,491 --> 00:53:16,525 - The moments of a real joy and 1055 00:53:18,196 --> 00:53:20,763 contentment in my life. 1056 00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:24,333 I've got my piano and I've got my cat, 1057 00:53:24,335 --> 00:53:26,202 and I've got a good job. 1058 00:53:26,204 --> 00:53:30,039 - I mean, sometimes I'm amazed that we're all 65 1059 00:53:30,041 --> 00:53:32,408 and, where did those years go? 1060 00:53:33,811 --> 00:53:35,878 It's quite a journey. 1061 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,781 - I feel much more that I understand 1062 00:53:38,783 --> 00:53:42,218 what the word "freedom" means now, than then. 1063 00:53:46,057 --> 00:53:50,559 In some ways, I guess maybe I'm really living the '60s. 1064 00:53:50,561 --> 00:53:53,996 Not only am I in my 60s, but I'm living 1065 00:53:53,998 --> 00:53:58,867 the spirit of the '60s of not feeling... 1066 00:54:00,805 --> 00:54:04,673 bound by convention as much as 1067 00:54:04,675 --> 00:54:07,676 by my own heart, and freedom 1068 00:54:07,678 --> 00:54:10,045 was what the '60s were about. 1069 00:54:12,216 --> 00:54:14,116 I think I'm finally getting it. 1070 00:54:14,118 --> 00:54:16,685 ("Fading") 1071 00:54:17,955 --> 00:54:20,089 ♪ Fading 1072 00:54:21,392 --> 00:54:25,027 ♪ They say I'm fading 1073 00:54:26,397 --> 00:54:28,063 - It's become my family. 1074 00:54:28,566 --> 00:54:32,901 ♪ Better look at my life and forgive 1075 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,973 ♪ Graying 1076 00:54:38,809 --> 00:54:42,778 ♪ Just 'cause I'm graying 1077 00:54:43,281 --> 00:54:46,649 ♪ Don't mean this fire is dying 1078 00:54:46,651 --> 00:54:48,917 ♪ Shine 'til the last moment 1079 00:54:48,919 --> 00:54:51,553 - Well-behaved women don't make history. 1080 00:54:54,458 --> 00:54:56,659 ♪ 'Cause I started dancing 1081 00:54:56,661 --> 00:54:59,028 ♪ When I learned to walk 1082 00:54:59,030 --> 00:55:03,699 ♪ Became a fighter and never stopped 1083 00:55:03,701 --> 00:55:05,234 ♪ I refused 1084 00:55:05,236 --> 00:55:08,170 - And all these midsts about women and their role, 1085 00:55:08,172 --> 00:55:11,774 and you kind of had to keep breaking through that. 1086 00:55:12,143 --> 00:55:13,409 - Don't tell me to calm down. 1087 00:55:13,411 --> 00:55:15,778 - (laughing) I was a recovering virgin. 1088 00:55:15,780 --> 00:55:18,847 - It's this muscle (laughing) underneath... 1089 00:55:18,916 --> 00:55:20,783 - She didn't walk around her husband 1090 00:55:20,785 --> 00:55:22,751 seven times at the wedding. 1091 00:55:22,987 --> 00:55:24,186 - I wanna be with the boys, 1092 00:55:24,188 --> 00:55:26,155 but I don't wanna be one of the boys. 1093 00:55:26,223 --> 00:55:28,724 - Still their pricetags on, and I knew then 1094 00:55:28,726 --> 00:55:31,560 that I was in a (laughing) brave new world. 1095 00:55:33,931 --> 00:55:35,531 - [Voiceover] I ran for mayor. 1096 00:55:35,533 --> 00:55:37,099 - You are the queen of work. 1097 00:55:37,101 --> 00:55:39,535 - I would love to do a cartwheel. 1098 00:55:40,504 --> 00:55:43,238 - Another kind of, wham! 1099 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:47,710 ♪ 'Cause I started dancing when I learned to walk 1100 00:55:47,712 --> 00:55:50,279 ♪ Became a fighter 1101 00:55:50,281 --> 00:55:52,414 - Get out of that box. 1102 00:55:53,651 --> 00:55:56,218 - I'm unboxing myself, I guess, in some ways. 1103 00:55:56,220 --> 00:55:57,953 - You look different to other people. 1104 00:55:57,955 --> 00:56:00,456 ♪ I'll go out with a bang ♪ 1105 00:56:00,458 --> 00:56:02,191 - What kind of problems could they have? 1106 00:56:05,129 --> 00:56:07,896 - I think maybe it's just not gonna happen for me. 1107 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,901 I would, however, not... 1108 00:56:13,838 --> 00:56:16,138 If I met somebody while I'm walking back 1109 00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:19,475 to my car this afternoon, the Upper West Side 1110 00:56:19,477 --> 00:56:21,343 has always been a very (laughs) 1111 00:56:21,345 --> 00:56:24,446 successful place for me to meet men. 1112 00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:29,318 I, you know, I would explore a relationship. 1113 00:56:29,553 --> 00:56:30,652 For sure. 1114 00:56:30,654 --> 00:56:34,089 ♪ Oh blackbird I hear you sing 1115 00:56:37,962 --> 00:56:42,364 ♪ You've mended up your broken wings 1116 00:56:44,201 --> 00:56:48,170 ♪ But I heard people say 1117 00:56:48,572 --> 00:56:52,441 ♪ That you can't fly the same 1118 00:56:55,679 --> 00:57:00,416 ♪ Say your wings are old now, they're gray 1119 00:57:04,455 --> 00:57:08,724 ♪ Oh blackbird, I hear them say 1120 00:57:12,363 --> 00:57:16,865 ♪ It's time you put those wings away 1121 00:57:18,969 --> 00:57:22,738 ♪ You're not graceful now 1122 00:57:22,740 --> 00:57:26,608 ♪ You're just flapping around 1123 00:57:27,945 --> 00:57:32,781 ♪ Better off retiring to the ground 1124 00:57:34,919 --> 00:57:39,855 ♪ Oh blackbird I know it isn't true 1125 00:57:43,127 --> 00:57:47,996 ♪ The fire still burns bright inside of you 1126 00:57:51,035 --> 00:57:54,670 ♪ Oh blackbird, you tell me 1127 00:57:54,672 --> 00:57:58,841 ♪ You have so much left to do 1128 00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,849 ♪ You'll fly high until it's through ♪